Classic Server RR caps

I think one of the most beneficial concepts that could be applied to a new server is putting a realm rank cap on and slowly unlocking as the months progress. Because the first month you will see a mad rush to 50 and then a mad rush to higher RRs, while others a large majority of potential returning subs want to play the game but not get ganked by rr5+s in NF in the first month.
Maybe a R4 first month, R5 the second, R6 the third, R10 the fourth month...

Another idea that I heard my friends talking about that would make them play again is if during those caps you earned less RPs per kill, or install a hard cap on points even though there is a RR cap during those times and after the 4th month there will be no more cap.

Just ideas. But I think it would be better for the sub number if the pvp field was controlled to create a more even playing field for all the subs. I know it sucks to get 50, and finally get into pvp just to get rolled by high RR in the first few months (look at phoenix for example for how quick people got to high RR) ... What happens? Subs go down because its not fun anymore. But there is a reason why the seasonal freeshard has a lot of popularity right now. There will be a chance to support new players and alts.

Comments

  • The seasonal model is definitely better suited for the f2p player base considering how fickle they are. While the official game has low population, it has yet to reach the pits observed on private servers that are considered to be "dead". I don't think it is necessary to apply that model here. The official game is the only place where your progress is secure, at least relative to what is available elsewhere. The recent event has even shown a simple cosmetic tied to a quest is sufficient content to bring players back. Realistically, that is the level of ingenuity that can be expected from this development team.

    RR disparity arguments fall flat on average. There is no such thing as a level playing field in RvR. Unlike other MMOs that balance teams or factions by mirroring classes and capping team sizes in a fixed zone, DAoC is asymmetric, unbalanced, and intrinsically chaotic. RR disparity adds to the chaotic nature of RvR, but is not a frequent deciding factor in the outcome of a fight. Between cool downs, skill disparity, number disparity, RNG, positioning, etc, RR plays a minor roll in the big picture. That said, earning RR is even easier now than ever before where RP bonuses are significantly larger at lower ranks than at higher ranks. Coupled with the logarithmic increase in RPs required for higher ranks, RR disparity has effectively shrunk over time.
  • Roks wrote: »
    I think one of the most beneficial concepts that could be applied to a new server is putting a realm rank cap on and slowly unlocking as the months progress. Because the first month you will see a mad rush to 50 and then a mad rush to higher RRs, while others a large majority of potential returning subs want to play the game but not get ganked by rr5+s in NF in the first month.
    Maybe a R4 first month, R5 the second, R6 the third, R10 the fourth month...

    Another idea that I heard my friends talking about that would make them play again is if during those caps you earned less RPs per kill, or install a hard cap on points even though there is a RR cap during those times and after the 4th month there will be no more cap.

    Just ideas. But I think it would be better for the sub number if the pvp field was controlled to create a more even playing field for all the subs. I know it sucks to get 50, and finally get into pvp just to get rolled by high RR in the first few months (look at **** for example for how quick people got to high RR) ... What happens? Subs go down because its not fun anymore. But there is a reason why the seasonal freeshard has a lot of popularity right now. There will be a chance to support new players and alts.

    Roks,
    Although your idea (monthly progressive RR caps) on the face of it may look appealing, the problem with this is, it penalizes the longest and hard core players (translates to most loyal paying customers). Full disclosure here - even though I have in the past been a hard care player, I have been and alwasy will be a supporter of the casual player community. So that being said, yes, I am not in favor of penalizing the hard care player in this fashion.

    Does this support towards not favoring the RR cap system hurt the casual player? The answer is a "No" due to the facts that any player, whether they are hard core or casual, have ample opportunity to play in "limited" RvR that already has hard coded caps not only with RR, but with levels. If any player who wishes to not be ganked by "RR 5" players are looking for a more even playing field until they can get their own teeth cut and get some RR of their own, all they have to do on Live is turn their XP off once they have gained enough levels to get to their desired BattleGround, and enjoy the game until they RR Cap out. And if they still do NOT wish to go to "Big Boy RvR", then all they have to do is roll up yet another toon and wash/rinse/repeat what they did with the previous toon.

    There are all kinds of players out there, many of whom use the above described process -- make BG alts. DAOC is a beautiful game that allows for all styles of play. Nothing wrong for fighting for the little guys here, but there is already a big mechanic in place to accommodate what you are suggesting.
    "And that's the Bottom line. Cause Stone Cold Griff said so!".
  • I dont see how that having rank caps for a launch would penalize the long term players. It would in fact be a bonus. Because what would you rather fight the same old guys and a low pop, OR have a high number of players. The only way to maintain a high number of players is to keep it fair.
    What I am saying people do not want to spend all the time leveling, templating and etc their characters and get rolled by high rr players.
    When I quit playing the game I had a few rr10+s and the few times I came back because I missed the game the experience was crap. Low population, high RR groups r12+ and just no solo game...yes even in the release of agramon and labyrith times with the large zergs they still had a good solo game. So it was playable in all aspects.
    And you wonder why freeshard servers always pop up and get thousands of players, its because its a fair ground. Why it fails? Because of the RR gap and etc of hardcore players vs casual pvpers that make up the core of the population.
    A cap is NOT a detriment to hardcore players because they will more than likely be still gaining rps but they will not be gaining the RA points. So when the cap raises, it be like christmas with 15-30 more points suddenly. But instead of having rr10s with a slew of r6s in a cap, you would have all r6s of the ones that hit that cap. So the playing field rises and it creates a better environment.


    But hey, can do no rr cap, and etc..then the hardcord loyal players and enjoy a dying game that again lost the chance to recapture the returning subs that float between freeshard to freeshard. Then when the day does come when daoc cannot survive on the loyal playerbase and closes its doors and everquest can still maintain mulitple servers by offering fresh ideas and servers and listening have you scratching your head and you join the community of freesharders...you will understand why players want certain things.
  • We'll find out if it works for DAoC soon enough. I suspect it won't make a difference.
  • I like the idea of RP caps, in the beginning. If the hard core players, reach the cap, roll another toon.
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  • DaRedANT wrote: »
    I like the idea of RP caps, in the beginning. If the hard core players, reach the cap, roll another toon.

    What ever they do, it has to be provided that the gap between casual and pro is as small as possible.
    There is no fun in eating dirt within 1 to 2 seconds, without even being able to play/fight.

    And also one of the more painful facts which seems nobody want to address...
    Groups and Zergs are killing the game
    Nobody wants groups, nobody want Zergs... beside the 0.01% of perverts that have fun in slaying the helpless.
    Therefore 8v1, 100v8 etc. has to be made very unsatisfactory.

    Mahv
  • Mahvash wrote: »
    And also one of the more painful facts which seems nobody want to address...
    Groups and Zergs are killing the game
    Nobody wants groups, nobody want Zergs... beside the 0.01% of perverts that have fun in slaying the helpless.
    Therefore 8v1, 100v8 etc. has to be made very unsatisfactory.

    Mahv

    You are incorrect to say that nobody wants groups or zergs when those are the most popular play styles on every server. Griefing/ganking is a consequence of sandbox RvR: no play style is protected (except for bow towns in NF on Ywain). The Caledonia event is a great example. Even with Overwhelming Force, players still opted to form zergs despite making fewer RPs as a result. The only way to prevent this type of behavior is to segregate play styles which is fundamentally against the spirit of the game.
  • At this point all i really care about is to not get fed with rps like its candy and that the pve content isnt that "un-nice" like on y-wayne. I want to go to places like the curos mine on hib and farm salvage there like in the old days. Old loot tables and so on
  • Roks wrote: »
    I dont see how that having rank caps for a launch would penalize the long term players. It would in fact be a bonus. Because what would you rather fight the same old guys and a low pop, OR have a high number of players. The only way to maintain a high number of players is to keep it fair.
    What I am saying people do not want to spend all the time leveling, templating and etc their characters and get rolled by high rr players.
    When I quit playing the game I had a few rr10+s and the few times I came back because I missed the game the experience was crap. Low population, high RR groups r12+ and just no solo game...yes even in the release of agramon and labyrith times with the large zergs they still had a good solo game. So it was playable in all aspects.
    And you wonder why freeshard servers always pop up and get thousands of players, its because its a fair ground. Why it fails? Because of the RR gap and etc of hardcore players vs casual pvpers that make up the core of the population.
    A cap is NOT a detriment to hardcore players because they will more than likely be still gaining rps but they will not be gaining the RA points. So when the cap raises, it be like christmas with 15-30 more points suddenly. But instead of having rr10s with a slew of r6s in a cap, you would have all r6s of the ones that hit that cap. So the playing field rises and it creates a better environment.


    But hey, can do no rr cap, and etc..then the hardcord loyal players and enjoy a dying game that again lost the chance to recapture the returning subs that float between freeshard to freeshard. Then when the day does come when daoc cannot survive on the loyal playerbase and closes its doors and everquest can still maintain mulitple servers by offering fresh ideas and servers and listening have you scratching your head and you join the community of freesharders...you will understand why players want certain things.


    You said " The only way to maintain a high number of players is to keep it fair."

    That is not true. We as players of DAOC do have multiple tools and methods at our own disposal to "keep it fair"/or not fair. I have been playing this game as a player and a leader of guilds since its inception. I have faced many a scenario where the odds have been against us hard core. However, with enough creativity and patience, along with stating a solid goal and providing a clear path to get there, it IS possible (and I have done it multiple times) to overcome those odds (even with asshats working against me).

    It is up to each individual to make a decision as to whether they are satisfied with being the prey (sheep) and allowing others to tell them what to think and what to do, or they can be predator (wolf) and find ways to get their dinner.

    Next, you said "And you wonder why freeshard servers always pop up and get thousands of players, its because its a fair ground. Why it fails? Because of the RR gap and etc of hardcore players vs casual pvpers that make up the core of the population. "

    This is also untrue. On nearly every freeshard, for exception of 1 (which in its current state has been up for roughly 6+ years) the "RR gap" is not an issue as it is easier to get RR than it is to order a pizza for delivery in 30 minutes.
    The actual problem on EVERY freeshard that has been causing their own pop declines is simple. I have bought this point up numerous times, much to the dismay of the rest of the player base, and I am going to say it again here.

    The problem is this: The ability to switch realms too easily and too quickly.
    In other words, these freeshards offering realm switch timers of anywhere from 2 hours to 8 hours (which includes all of them) when implemented, began the fall of their server each and every time. You see this is simple logic. When a casual player can only log in a few times a week, they are NOT going to be interested in switching realms on a dime.

    So when their hardcore friends decide to switch to another realm one day, the casual guys discover they are now having their asses handed to them by who they thought were their gaming friends...So they are left with a choice, either quit or join them. Most quit.
    Some join, but it then quickly dominoes into a bandwagoned server where the casuals are forced to keep up, or get creamed cause they don't have the time to invest anymore to do so -- THEN they do quit. Soon after everyone begins to discover that it aint fun constantly zerging with no resistance -- then turns into more pop shearing into several 8 man's who can't find anything anymore to feed off of, and then woolah, we have a freeshard with less than 50 people on it within a few months.

    Wash/Rinse/Repeat no matter the ruleset. Those devs there just don't seem to get it.

    Long story short - RR (cap or not) is NOT the on-going problem. SHORT REALM SWITCH TIMERS ARE.
    "And that's the Bottom line. Cause Stone Cold Griff said so!".
  • puter wrote: »
    Mahvash wrote: »
    And also one of the more painful facts which seems nobody want to address...
    Groups and Zergs are killing the game
    Nobody wants groups, nobody want Zergs... beside the 0.01% of perverts that have fun in slaying the helpless.
    Therefore 8v1, 100v8 etc. has to be made very unsatisfactory.

    Mahv

    You are incorrect to say that nobody wants groups or zergs when those are the most popular play styles on every server. Griefing/ganking is a consequence of sandbox RvR: no play style is protected (except for bow towns in NF on Ywain). The Caledonia event is a great example. Even with Overwhelming Force, players still opted to form zergs despite making fewer RPs as a result. The only way to prevent this type of behavior is to segregate play styles which is fundamentally against the spirit of the game.

    "The only way to prevent this type of behavior is to segregate play styles which is fundamentally against the spirit of the game."

    One of the few times I will agree with this guy. Hell must have frozen over.
    "And that's the Bottom line. Cause Stone Cold Griff said so!".
  • SHORT REALM SWITCH TIMERS ARE.

    Incorrect. There has never been a way to prevent players from switching realms. It was either circumvented by purchase of another account (original Mythic servers) or use of a VPN (private servers). Realm timers work on players who think the glass door is closed when there's actually no door.
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