Dynamic Population Bonuses Return

2

Comments

  • Yes, hib casters are super strong.
  • Controverse thingy - Slam got nerfed years ago to 5 sec - mabye base line stun should also be reduced? It is just a sugestion / question ?
  • Seriously? Baseline stun on hib casters has been in the game for 18 years.
  • Yep, and given the current state of the game is it more powerful than ever. I cam flabbergasted when I log my hibs and see how freaking easy it is to rack up kills over there.
  • edited January 21 PM
    @Mace80 OK, so who would get baseline stun on hib then?
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • I never said anything about changing it. I just said it is a part of what makes Hibs so out of hand atm. The PBAOE meta coupled with baseline stun is making hib caster groups major easy mode.
  • Mace80 wrote: »
    I never said anything about changing it. I just said it is a part of what makes Hibs so out of hand atm. The PBAOE meta coupled with baseline stun is making hib caster groups major easy mode.

    Stun is relatively pointless in a keep or tower fight. Most cc is locked out in the time for the fight to be over. The only thing that changed from the norm was the higher pbae. As a warrior with 4400 hp, 2 casters can shred me before my healers can do anything. I feel for an class with lesser resists and a lot less hp. For a mid tank group you have 10s to neutralize pbae or you are done. That 10s comes from the warrior class cloak. If you can't break it by then, it's nearly a lost cause. There are no heals in the game to counteract it. Doubling base and spec group and spreadheals "might" make a difference, but then you totally throw off other encounters.
  • Weapon-stuns aren't affected by resistances - cast-stuns are. So reducing the slam-duration on non heavies was a good choice.

    And the major reason why hibs seem stronger isn't the realm's cc-balance. It's the synergy of classes they bring into groups.
    If you face a competitive alb/mid group each side has to survive several cc-rounds. No matter what class brings the stun with.

    But from what I've seen in the last months about 99% of the competitive players aren't playing anymore - so even simple /assist-x-macros'n'nuke overwhelms the majority (incl. me sometimes - I've heard we're getting older).
  • edited January 21 PM
    Yawn....Baseline stun is in game since beginning.
    Now that hib is overpop, you wanna nerf it. Thats a good way to solve overpopulation lol.
    So when a realm is overpop, we just start nerving it until no one plays it anymore. When people are gone, we revert it. lololol
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • By the way albs and mids did well against hero bg on Monday. If you keep this up, it could become sth.
  • KoeKoe
    edited January 21 PM
    Shoke wrote: »
    Seriously? Baseline stun on hib casters has been in the game for 18 years.

    And in that time hib casters have gotten many boosts. Just one example: it used to be that eld/chanters/ments had substantially lower delve dd's because of their ability to stun. Some examples below:

    1) Chanters and Eldys now have access to the highest delve damage in game, ever. 425...
    2) Ments have access to the highest delve aoe dot (which only the BD spec which nobody else plays can match- 121 delve 2.5 sec 20 sec dur). Except unlike BD's they can also debuff it 10% without sacrificing main line (damage cap).
    3) Ments and Elds have access to the highest list caster delve AOE (except for their body train realm mates which hardly devalues the comparison that hib casters are OP). At 158 delve they match fire wizards and RM's.
    4) Eld, Wizard and Rm bolts are all the same delve now, at 317 (it used to be 309 for eld).
    5) Hib casters now all have access to 2 forms of CC (Chanters stun + root, Elds and Ments stun + mez). Alb/Mid casters haven't gotten any additional CC options.
    6) Chanters now get speed 5- RM's are still at speed 4.
    7) Void elds can now dual spec and debuff as effectively as RM's or Cabs as they were given a baseline 179 2.6 energy dd.
    8) Hib caster greatest spec ST dd used to be 209 2.8sec, and you had to give up a lot to get it. That's 74.64/sec. Now Enchantment chanters get 199 @2.6s. That's 76.54/sec, close to Alb/Mid top at 78.21/sec. Light chanters now also get a 209dd with a 10% heat debuff.
    9) Off-specs have been significantly buffed (see enchantment chanter) while off specs for Wiz/RM/SM remain weak at best
    10) Extra debuffs have been added (dehaste/de-absorb/damage redux) where alb/mid casters (Wiz/RM) haven't benefited.
    11) Hib caster RR5's are OP (especially vs mid). Chanter 2000 Delve absorb all damage type 3 min duration 10 reuse. Eld 10 second un-cc'able 215% speed. 10 min duration. Ments AOE you can't attack me melee or magic, 20 sec duration 5 min reuse. Vs RM's can evade 90% melee attacks (modified heavily by weapon skill or abilities such as enchantment chanters provide) only until someone lands stun, 20 sec duration 10 min reuse. SM sacrifice pet, heal group members instantly, depending on pet health level, 10 min reuse. BD ~50% chance to resist NS/CC 1 min dur, 10 min reuse. WL R5 would be okay (but nowhere near as good as wiz) except no toon has ever stood under boiling cauldron for the 7 seconds it takes before it fires. Also 15 min reuse.

    So yeah, nothing has changed for Hib casters in the 18 years stun has been in game:P
    Rok1 wrote: »
    Stun is relatively pointless in a keep or tower fight. Most cc is locked out in the time for the fight to be over.

    Actually since even purge 5 is on a 5 minute timer, a halfway decent hib debuff group can basically keep a keep wall on lockdown, and then a keep roof on lockdown once they are inside. It makes taking keeps so much easier, and prevents defenders from getting as many rps. If you stick your head out with purge down you will die in 2 seconds. That's far from "relatively pointless".

    If stun were relatively pointless everyone wouldn't lead with it and every debuff train use it.

    Post edited by Koe on
  • Koe wrote: »
    Rok1 wrote: »
    Stun is relatively pointless in a keep or tower fight. Most cc is locked out in the time for the fight to be over.

    Actually since even purge 5 is on a 5 minute timer, a halfway decent hib debuff group can basically keep a keep wall on lockdown, and then a keep roof on lockdown once they are inside. It makes taking keeps so much easier, and prevents defenders from getting as many rps. If you stick your head out with purge down you will die in 2 seconds. That's far from "relatively pointless".

    If stun were relatively pointless everyone wouldn't lead with it and every debuff train use it.

    My point was more directed to floor by floor fights and lord room fights.
  • Koe wrote: »

    Actually since even purge 5 is on a 5 minute timer, a halfway decent hib debuff group can basically keep a keep wall on lockdown, and then a keep roof on lockdown once they are inside. It makes taking keeps so much easier, and prevents defenders from getting as many rps. If you stick your head out with purge down you will die in 2 seconds. That's far from "relatively pointless".

    That's a keep design flaw pertaining to the inner keep, not a stun-nuke-nuke issue. The fact that you can lock the roof down from the outer walls is one of the stupidest keep designs I have ever seen.

    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • Rok1 wrote: »
    Koe wrote: »
    Rok1 wrote: »
    Stun is relatively pointless in a keep or tower fight. Most cc is locked out in the time for the fight to be over.

    Actually since even purge 5 is on a 5 minute timer, a halfway decent hib debuff group can basically keep a keep wall on lockdown, and then a keep roof on lockdown once they are inside. It makes taking keeps so much easier, and prevents defenders from getting as many rps. If you stick your head out with purge down you will die in 2 seconds. That's far from "relatively pointless".

    If stun were relatively pointless everyone wouldn't lead with it and every debuff train use it.

    My point was more directed to floor by floor fights and lord room fights.

    well that's true, once you're in, your in.
  • @Koe you are talking like Mid casters never received any adjustments over time...

    1) OK... So does wizzies, cabbies and SMs. However, the main point is that the pbae on both hib casters are in good utility spec whereas matter is crap for cabby, supp is kind of crappy for SM and ice is decent formwiz.

    Points #2 and 3 are irrelevant. There are like 5 mana ments in the game and nobody killed anyone with the range ae nuke.

    5) RM didn't have ae root in supp spec before and it got boosted to bolt range.

    6) ok who cares, Healers got it instead, I'd say mid prefers having speed 5 on healers rather than RMs? Speed on healer used to be in the aug spec line.

    7) and they lowered the level req for the cold debuff on RM from 48 to 45, so now a RC RM can get pbt and blue NS, which you couldn't get before.

    8) RM spec nuke in darkness line was a 219 delve but the cold debuff was a separate nuke, they changed it to 219+10% cold debuff in the same nuke.

    The Light eld nukes never changed, sonnot sure why you say that you "had" to give up a lot for it, it's still at 45 light spec.

    The enchantment chanter spec nuke is body and you wont run a enchant chanter in a body debuff train, or very very rarely.

    9) you magically forgot how RMs get a 209 delve Energy DD in RC line? How convenient. But you mention enchantment chanters?

    10) these debuffs have been in the enchanter light spec for 15+ years.

    11) ok true the R5 for mid casters arent great. The BD and RM ones are great, SM and Lovk arr lackluster. Alb still wins with the most OP R5 (theurgist), wizzy gets an equivalent r5 to the chanter's, sorc gets a massive abs boost and cabby gets a great R5 in 8v8 situations, not so useful in zerg fights.

    So to answer your comment, hib casters were adjusted just as mid casters were adjusted.

    SMs were left virtually untouched because they are just a crazy strong caster. They do get a 199 delve dd in supp line now, which makes their pbae line pretty decent.

    I took way too much time answering your post, but the midgardian tears are just too much.
  • edited January 22 PM
    Play a cast on another realm and then play a hib caster. Play a pub 8 on alb and then one on hib. Go on on another realm then Zerg on hib... I don't know what some people are thinking but it's like night and day right now... Just try it .. stop paper daocing (hibs still come out on top nomatter because of perma relics) and play the other realms when they have a bonus. It's not like the community just went crazy after EC patch, most can see it a few just won't ever see it probably.
    Post edited by rocketait on
  • @rocketait I mainly play alb right now. I'm not saying game is balanced, mainly responding to people thinking removing baseline stun from hib casters would solve anything
  • Koe wrote: »
    Shoke wrote: »
    Seriously? Baseline stun on hib casters has been in the game for 18 years.

    And in that time hib casters have gotten many boosts. Just one example: it used to be that eld/chanters/ments had substantially lower delve dd's because of their ability to stun. Some examples below:

    1) Chanters and Eldys now have access to the highest delve damage in game, ever. 425...
    2) Ments have access to the highest delve aoe dot (which only the BD spec which nobody else plays can match- 121 delve 2.5 sec 20 sec dur). Except unlike BD's they can also debuff it 10% without sacrificing main line (damage cap).
    3) Ments and Elds have access to the highest list caster delve AOE (except for their body train realm mates which hardly devalues the comparison that hib casters are OP). At 158 delve they match fire wizards and RM's.
    4) Eld, Wizard and Rm bolts are all the same delve now, at 317 (it used to be 309 for eld).
    5) Hib casters now all have access to 2 forms of CC (Chanters stun + root, Elds and Ments stun + mez). Alb/Mid casters haven't gotten any additional CC options.
    6) Chanters now get speed 5- RM's are still at speed 4.
    7) Void elds can now dual spec and debuff as effectively as RM's or Cabs as they were given a baseline 179 2.6 energy dd.
    8) Hib caster greatest spec ST dd used to be 209 2.8sec, and you had to give up a lot to get it. That's 74.64/sec. Now Enchantment chanters get 199 @2.6s. That's 76.54/sec, close to Alb/Mid top at 78.21/sec. Light chanters now also get a 209dd with a 10% heat debuff.
    9) Off-specs have been significantly buffed (see enchantment chanter) while off specs for Wiz/RM/SM remain weak at best
    10) Extra debuffs have been added (dehaste/de-absorb/damage redux) where alb/mid casters (Wiz/RM) haven't benefited.
    11) Hib caster RR5's are OP (especially vs mid). Chanter 2000 Delve absorb all damage type 3 min duration 10 reuse. Eld 10 second un-cc'able 215% speed. 10 min duration. Ments AOE you can't attack me melee or magic, 20 sec duration 5 min reuse. Vs RM's can evade 90% melee attacks (modified heavily by weapon skill or abilities such as enchantment chanters provide) only until someone lands stun, 20 sec duration 10 min reuse. SM sacrifice pet, heal group members instantly, depending on pet health level, 10 min reuse. BD ~50% chance to resist NS/CC 1 min dur, 10 min reuse. WL R5 would be okay (but nowhere near as good as wiz) except no toon has ever stood under boiling cauldron for the 7 seconds it takes before it fires. Also 15 min reuse.

    So yeah, nothing has changed for Hib casters in the 18 years stun has been in game:P
    Rok1 wrote: »
    Stun is relatively pointless in a keep or tower fight. Most cc is locked out in the time for the fight to be over.

    Actually since even purge 5 is on a 5 minute timer, a halfway decent hib debuff group can basically keep a keep wall on lockdown, and then a keep roof on lockdown once they are inside. It makes taking keeps so much easier, and prevents defenders from getting as many rps. If you stick your head out with purge down you will die in 2 seconds. That's far from "relatively pointless".

    If stun were relatively pointless everyone wouldn't lead with it and every debuff train use it.

    1) So do other classes
    2) AOE dots only serve as perma cc breakers. If they get kills it's due to groups not running healers.
    3) Not true. ES bainshees and Arb Animists have higher delve as list casters. Also, Void elds lose out on a lot of utility when they run Void. You have to choose between running light subspec or mana subspec. Both lines offer a lot of utility. If you run mana subspec for str/con debuffs and able to debuff for your own energy debuffed damage then you lose your long range interrupt (nearsight) and also a double dex debuff. Good luck trying to do anything greater than 1500 range baseline vs any competent player.
    4) Wizards have the highest delve of 331 at 50 fire spec. Eld and RM are 317 delve.
    5) Mana elds with subspec light have access to three forms. But it will be green ae mezz if you do 50/20 spec which is the most common Mana eld specline. I consider it less than a Smite Cleric's cc single target stun, single target mez, pbae snare, and rr5 stun vs melee. But we are only talking about list casters.
    6) Chanters have speed 5 but as another mentioned, Healers having it is better (let's not talk about their utility)
    7) Correct but my darkcarver RM is a better spec than my void eld. Same bolts, same AE but also a spec energy (now common mid debuff train) 209 dd, same red dex debuff baseline (just doesn't have a stun). Or if you prefer to bolt people you can subspec supp and have an absorb debuff to help with your bolts vs casters (it's not much but every bit helps).
    8) Hib caster greatest spec dd is the bainshee baseline 223 at 2.8 second cast which comes out to 79.64/sec (not modified by dex breakpoints. But in all honesty, you should check out lifetap dd's as they have a higher damage coefficient. They will hit harder than a regular DD of the same value.
    9) As someone mentioned Enchantment enchanters aren't brought for their dps, they are brought for tank train utility. They can be replaced with other casters with better synergy in a caster group.
    10) Most of the dehaste/de-absorb/damage redux share a cd timer with similar debuffs and not all debuffs are aoe. Trying to get all your debuffs out on all targets rotating cd's will take up a lot of your time. But for Hib, dehaste is in enchanter light line for ae (not utilized much) and the single target absorb debuff is in light spec also (both share a cd with each other). Runemasters have a single target absorb debuff in their Supp line which gives red pbt, red ns, 1875 range red ae root, and red confuse (which is great for clearing theur pets on a 2.0 pre dex breakpoint cast).
    11) I have used my RM rr5 to save myself many times. Not to mention an SM being able to heal their group for up to 3500 with their rr5. Another has already mentioned Alb RR5's.

  • Rok1 wrote: »
    Mace80 wrote: »
    I never said anything about changing it. I just said it is a part of what makes Hibs so out of hand atm. The PBAOE meta coupled with baseline stun is making hib caster groups major easy mode.

    Stun is relatively pointless in a keep or tower fight. Most cc is locked out in the time for the fight to be over. The only thing that changed from the norm was the higher pbae. As a warrior with 4400 hp, 2 casters can shred me before my healers can do anything. I feel for an class with lesser resists and a lot less hp. For a mid tank group you have 10s to neutralize pbae or you are done. That 10s comes from the warrior class cloak. If you can't break it by then, it's nearly a lost cause. There are no heals in the game to counteract it. Doubling base and spec group and spreadheals "might" make a difference, but then you totally throw off other encounters.

    You will not convince me that what I've experienced first hand doesn't exist. I rack up kills on my hibs in siege using stun/nuke like I've never seen or experienced on alb (my main realm) or my mids.
  • Shoke wrote: »
    @rocketait I mainly play alb right now. I'm not saying game is balanced, mainly responding to people thinking removing baseline stun from hib casters would solve anything

    I mentioned the stun as a part-in-parcel to everything else hibs have going for them atm. I'm not calling for a stun nerf... I'm just saying that it...plus the insane synergy they have going for them atm is crazy.
  • rocketait wrote: »
    Play a cast on another realm and then play a hib caster. Play a pub 8 on alb and then one on hib. Go on on another realm then Zerg on hib... I don't know what some people are thinking but it's like night and day right now... Just try it .. stop paper daocing (hibs still come out on top nomatter because of perma relics) and play the other realms when they have a bonus. It's not like the community just went crazy after EC patch, most can see it a few just won't ever see it probably.

    It's basically because there is a steep learning curve to play vs hib, especially a hib zerg, and if you mess up (if you are the closest player to the hib casters who nearest target stun dd, with purge down), you're probably toast. Stun keeps the nearest enemy visible and within range for 7-8 seconds, plenty long enough for even the most fumbly slowest reacting player to find an enemy to target and assist. So on Mid and Alb you've got to really coordinate to focus kills. On Hib it just comes naturally and easily.
  • Shoke wrote: »
    Daelin wrote: »

    Don't really have the time to respond to everthing here. Do acknowledge that RM's now get a energy dd in RC and that supp has an aoe root and that Wiz spec bolt is stronger than Rm and Eld (and they can do a 3rd low lvl one). In discussing forms of CC and saying ment/eld/chanter hib casters get two while mid/alb get one, it still stands. You can purge a root from a RM and won't have to worry about that RM's secondary form of CC. You purge an Eld Mez or chanter root at your peril. Aoe vs ST root may be more beneficial obviously for CC, but those changes happened on all 3 realms.

    Similar to that, the comment that so do other classes (get 425 dd). They don't have baseline stun. That's the entire point, I'm making right? that hib casters have been brought up to parity with other list casters (and in some cases surpass), meanwhile they still have baseline stun which used to mean that the class suffered in other areas.

    I said Bains and Anis get the highest ST dd, and that its on hib so it only bolsters that point that hib casters are OP. They stand right next to each other in keep takes/defenses. Yall didn't respond to the main point.

    Light chanters have not had these debuffs for 15+ years. They now have more debuffs than they had in years past. Even the herald still lists them as only having the dehaste they've always had. Now they have the dehaste, an absorb debuff, a damage debuff, and a heat debuff. https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/class-library-enchanter#bedazzling

    If elds/chanters/ments play a specific spec rather than another one that was buffed, it's only because the one they choose is stronger or more useful. Saying nobody plays that or does that because something else hib has is so much stronger only makes my point that hib casters are OP.

    Chanter vs Healer getting speed 5. Hibs are already going to always have a bard, strongest class ever, so it has no impact on 8man and helps mid, yes, but small man/solo it makes the chanter all but unstoppable, and nobody is going to argue healers can now solo.

    When the game came out casters didn't often cap damage (with MOM7, aug acuity 5, wp9, and comp 65-70 to skill). Casters had up to 75 acuity, not 126. Caping spell speed was difficult, even on a luri. There was no 10% caster speed, 10% caster damage, 10% spell resist pierce and 10% range. People often still ran with 50% heat resists in a group, or at least 40's. There was little chance of a caster killing you with just one caster stun nuking, over those 7 seconds. Even with ablatives and a magic resist charge, if purge is down, any r7+ templated caster (most of them out there) will kill another caster or support toon before stun wears off) absent heals.
  • Revert to Patch 1.9X era and none of these issues would exist =P
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
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  • edited January 22 PM
    Koe wrote: »
    You can purge a root from a RM and won't have to worry about that RM's secondary form of CC. You purge an Eld Mez or chanter root at your peril. Aoe vs ST root may be more beneficial obviously for CC, but those changes happened on all 3 realms.
    I do get what you are saying. RM might be a bit worse because he only has root, but it's the best root in the game.

    The main issue with Mid, is that

    1) all their casters get baseline root, which is 500x stronger than baseline stun everywhere except keep fights.
    2) Mid has access to the Healer, which is the strongest class in the game. Saying a bard > healer is nuts. Mid has every single CC in the game on a single class. It led to sacrificing CC on other classes. Imagine if every single caster in mid had 2 forms of CC?

    single mezz
    ae mezz
    single insta mezz
    ae insta mezz
    single stun
    ae stun
    insta single stun
    insta ae stun
    root
    Amnesia (spammable)
    AE Amnesia (spammable)
    Forceful Zephyr through sojourner ML line.

    I mean even your main healer (aug) has a 11 sec baseline stun and 1:10 min single target mezz, on top of everything else an Aug healer gets.

    So I mean the baseline stun on hib caster complaint is a bit much when Mid has pac healers. But again, a notorious Midgard player (Muylae not to name him) wanted healers to also get a charmable pet in pac line (that follows Minstrel/Mentalist charm mechanics to offer CC immunity) along with a spec delve DD. So nothing coming out of mids is surprising, the tears are endless.

    Single target stun is great in keep defense, I agree. Pop out the window, the MA stuns, debuffs, bam dead. In any other situation, Cleric and Aug can do the same. Even in keep sieges, your cleric can wake up from spamming spread heals and stay close to the caster MA to stun targets. Same with Aug healer.
    Koe wrote: »
    Similar to that, the comment that so do other classes (get 425 dd). They don't have baseline stun. That's the entire point, I'm making right? that hib casters have been brought up to parity with other list casters (and in some cases surpass), meanwhile they still have baseline stun which used to mean that the class suffered in other areas.

    You don't baseline stun when PBAEing, so that's irrelevant.
    Koe wrote: »
    I said Bains and Anis get the highest ST dd, and that its on hib so it only bolsters that point that hib casters are OP. They stand right next to each other in keep takes/defenses. Yall didn't respond to the main point.
    The highest delve DD is the Fire wizard, with 229 dmg + 10% heat debuff.

    Bainshees are just complete crap and have been nerfed to death. Nobody plays bainshees because of how crap they are.

    Animists get that bomb from speccing Arb, which isn't a very good spec. Also, if you can't pre-heal an animist bomb (when you see the big glowing ball heading to you) I don't know what to tell you.
    Koe wrote: »
    Light chanters have not had these debuffs for 15+ years. They now have more debuffs than they had in years past. Even the herald still lists them as only having the dehaste they've always had. Now they have the dehaste, an absorb debuff, a damage debuff, and a heat debuff. https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/class-library-enchanter#bedazzling
    I don't know, I took my information from another place that stritctly follows the 1.65 ruleset, which came out 15 years ago. I wouldn't trust BS information to have anything accurate.
    Koe wrote: »
    If elds/chanters/ments play a specific spec rather than another one that was buffed, it's only because the one they choose is stronger or more useful. Saying nobody plays that or does that because something else hib has is so much stronger only makes my point that hib casters are OP.

    That's not true. Light Eld >>>>> Void Eld, not even close. However, most Elds are void because of the Energy train, not because they are particularly good. A Spirit Cabby is way stronger than a void eld. A Dark SM is a million times better than a Void Eld.

    So your point is not really thought out.

    As for Mana mentalists, the only time you play one is in PvE and in keep defense, to make sure you can piss off any serious Hib group trying to CC and single target pick opposing players. Mana mentalists are a nuisance, if they deleted the spec line nobody would care. So yeah basically any spec is better than Mana, I don't see your point.
    Koe wrote: »
    Chanter vs Healer getting speed 5. Hibs are already going to always have a bard, strongest class ever, so it has no impact on 8man and helps mid, yes, but small man/solo it makes the chanter all but unstoppable, and nobody is going to argue healers can now solo.
    OK Bard strongest class ever. I think your argument comes from the fact that you've never played with a good pac. Bard is easier to play, but doesn't have the power of a pac. The only thing a bard has that the pac doesn't is sos.

    Bard is strong, but pac > bard.

    In solo you use a horse? Who cares about speed? You're trying to make points to try to position Mid as a weak realm by adding irrelevant arguments.

    Putting Speed 5 on Healers was huge, because you don't have to run skalds anymore.
    Koe wrote: »
    When the game came out casters didn't often cap damage (with MOM7, aug acuity 5, wp9, and comp 65-70 to skill). Casters had up to 75 acuity, not 126. Caping spell speed was difficult, even on a luri. There was no 10% caster speed, 10% caster damage, 10% spell resist pierce and 10% range. People often still ran with 50% heat resists in a group, or at least 40's. There was little chance of a caster killing you with just one caster stun nuking, over those 7 seconds. Even with ablatives and a magic resist charge, if purge is down, any r7+ templated caster (most of them out there) will kill another caster or support toon before stun wears off) absent heals.
    [/quote]

    OK, and Light tanks didn't have 3800 HP and heavies didn't have 4000 HP. I feel that scaled pretty well tbh.
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • Holy paper daoc.
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • lets talk about class cloaks :)
  • Well at least this conversation isn’t about stealth zergs for once. lol
  • Good call.

    How do you use the warrior's loyalty cloak uses correctly - pop 2nd one whenever available?
  • KoeKoe
    edited January 23 PM
    Much of your information is flat wrong, or very misleading. Having a bias is fine but lets stick with the facts.
    Shoke wrote: »
    I do get what you are saying. RM might be a bit worse because he only has root, but it's the best root in the game.
    Um I'd rather have a nature druid with insta aoe de-root ST de-root (pet), group heals, and the only difference in the aoe root is that you're at 1500 range vs bolt range. Since most hib groups out now are running a VW you are essentially at same range as with a RM.
    Shoke wrote: »
    The main issue with Mid, is that

    1) all their casters get baseline root, which is 500x stronger than baseline stun everywhere except keep fights.
    So you're saying Chanter and even bain/ani are OP? That's all I get out of this.
    Shoke wrote: »
    Imagine if every single caster in mid had 2 forms of CC?
    They would be Chanters Eldy's and Ments. All I get is you're saying that would be OP, like Hibs.
    Shoke wrote: »
    But again, a notorious Midgard player
    Please leave your insults at the door. We are all friends here.
    Shoke wrote: »
    Single target stun is great in keep defense, I agree. Pop out the window, the MA stuns, debuffs, bam dead. In any other situation, Cleric and Aug can do the same.
    The difference is that for (especially an aug healer) to expose themselves to enemy casters means that when they need heals either there's only one person to heal them vs 3 for a hib group, and they can't also assist with DD's as a smite cleric can. Most people who play this game are reasonable and understand that its much better to have an assister who can assist with more than just stun, otherwise they are often a wasted player for seconds that it takes them to find cover again and get out of aoe range. Also can't demez if you were in the mez pile. There's a whole lot of just no in getting your aug healer as part of the assist train, and I know you know better.
    Shoke wrote: »
    You don't baseline stun when PBAEing, so that's irrelevant.
    Sure you do. You QC stun vs the assassin that tried to pop you in the back and 3 shot them, or you stun the WL trying to pbaoe bomb or simply run past your stack. Sounds like your arguments is pac healers should use all their tools to win but hib casters don't. That doesn't pass the smell test.
    Shoke wrote: »
    The highest delve DD is the Fire wizard, with 229 dmg + 10% heat debuff.
    Yeah. So um. Maybe you are going back to that "site that follows 1.65 exactly" or whatever, but my fire wiz, and every fire wiz on the server has been at 219 +10% for years.
    Shoke wrote: »
    Bainshees are just complete crap and have been nerfed to death. Nobody plays bainshees because of how crap they are.
    Nobody plays bains because of how OP the other casters on hib are. Chanters and Eldys (This is a baseline stun conversation remember) have been top 5-7 rp's earned over the past few months. Ments are strong in their own right and Animists are great if played well.
    Shoke wrote: »
    Animists get that bomb from speccing Arb, which isn't a very good spec. Also, if you can't pre-heal an animist bomb (when you see the big glowing ball heading to you) I don't know what to tell you.
    You have to preheal the bombers. They congeal for a few seconds before all exploding at once (at which time the animist has switched to the DD debuff to hit about 6-7 x in 2 seconds. It's got nothing to do with the giant bomber. Also it's difficult to pre-heal in a keep siege situation where you don't see the bombers or know their target half the time.
    Shoke wrote: »
    I don't know, I took my information from another place that stritctly follows the 1.65 ruleset, which came out 15 years ago. I wouldn't trust BS information to have anything accurate.
    It's okay to be wrong, Light chanters only ever had the aoe melee debuff speed until a few years ago, Now they have the melee speed, absorb, melee damage debuff and heat debuff dd.
    Shoke wrote: »
    Koe wrote: »
    If elds/chanters/ments play a specific spec rather than another one that was buffed, it's only because the one they choose is stronger or more useful. Saying nobody plays that or does that because something else hib has is so much stronger only makes my point that hib casters are OP.

    That's not true. Light Eld >>>>> Void Eld, not even close. However, most Elds are void because of the Energy train, not because they are particularly good. A Spirit Cabby is way stronger than a void eld. A Dark SM is a million times better than a Void Eld. So your point is not really thought out.
    Thanks for making my point. Read above re: "or more useful".
    Shoke wrote: »
    As for Mana mentalists, the only time you play one is in PvE and in keep defense, to make sure you can piss off any serious Hib group trying to CC and single target pick opposing players. Mana mentalists are a nuisance, if they deleted the spec line nobody would care. So yeah basically any spec is better than Mana, I don't see your point.
    Again that's my point. it's a great line for getting RPS quickly by zerg surfing.
    Shoke wrote: »
    OK Bard strongest class ever. I think your argument comes from the fact that you've never played with a good pac. Bard is easier to play, but doesn't have the power of a pac. The only thing a bard has that the pac doesn't is sos.
    More than 1.0 spec points? Check. Dd insta interrupts? check. 40% mez dampening? check. Crescendo/greater Crescendo? check. High level end regen? check Significantly better resists? Check. Cure NS? Check. Instant amnesia (For those tuning in this means you can cast it on top of something else like a root, no time wasted!), Check. Baseline root of 1m13sec vs spec root of 1m9 sec/really 56sec for healers? Check. Top end weapon with Egg Rez? Check Very low spec point cost weapon stun/snare weapon styles? Check Evade 2? check.
    Shoke wrote: »
    In solo you use a horse? Who cares about speed? You're trying to make points to try to position Mid as a weak realm by adding irrelevant arguments.
    Going out on a limb in that you've never duo'ed or soloed. I'll make it simple. You damage someone and/or get damaged at the same time, The person who can pick up speed without having to stop movement for 5 seconds to call a horse +2 seconds to recapture speed, wins, whether you are trying to kite or chase. Giving chanters speed 6 makes them pretty god mode solo. It's a good thing there aren't any good solo chanters out there :expressionless:
    Shoke wrote: »
    OK, and Light tanks didn't have 3800 HP and heavies didn't have 4000 HP. I feel that scaled pretty well tbh.
    When I talked about how damage has significantly increased for casters and how with stun one caster can take out another caster or support class, (and with assists take them out easily with full heals), but couldn't when the game was new, I specifically excluded talking about tanks and stoicism/det. You don't throw a casted stun on a tank. That you went there rather than responding to my valid point doesn't make my point less valid.

    Post edited by Koe on
  • Koe wrote: »
    Much of your information is flat wrong, or very misleading. Having a bias is fine but lets stick with the facts.
    Shoke wrote: »
    I do get what you are saying. RM might be a bit worse because he only has root, but it's the best root in the game.
    Um I'd rather have a nature druid with insta aoe de-root ST de-root (pet), group heals, and the only difference in the aoe root is that you're at 1500 range vs bolt range. Since most hib groups out now are running a VW you are essentially at same range as with a RM.
    Shoke wrote: »
    The main issue with Mid, is that

    1) all their casters get baseline root, which is 500x stronger than baseline stun everywhere except keep fights.
    So you're saying Chanter and even bain/ani are OP? That's all I get out of this.
    Shoke wrote: »
    Imagine if every single caster in mid had 2 forms of CC?
    They would be Chanters Eldy's and Ments. All I get is you're saying that would be OP, like Hibs.
    Shoke wrote: »
    But again, a notorious Midgard player
    Please leave your insults at the door. We are all friends here.
    Shoke wrote: »
    Single target stun is great in keep defense, I agree. Pop out the window, the MA stuns, debuffs, bam dead. In any other situation, Cleric and Aug can do the same.
    The difference is that for (especially an aug healer) to expose themselves to enemy casters means that when they need heals either there's only one person to heal them vs 3 for a hib group, and they can't also assist with DD's as a smite cleric can. Most people who play this game are reasonable and understand that its much better to have an assister who can assist with more than just stun, otherwise they are often a wasted player for seconds that it takes them to find cover again and get out of aoe range. Also can't demez if you were in the mez pile. There's a whole lot of just no in getting your aug healer as part of the assist train, and I know you know better.
    Shoke wrote: »
    You don't baseline stun when PBAEing, so that's irrelevant.
    Sure you do. You QC stun vs the assassin that tried to pop you in the back and 3 shot them, or you stun the WL trying to pbaoe bomb or simply run past your stack. Sounds like your arguments is pac healers should use all their tools to win but hib casters don't. That doesn't pass the smell test.
    Shoke wrote: »
    The highest delve DD is the Fire wizard, with 229 dmg + 10% heat debuff.
    Yeah. So um. Maybe you are going back to that "site that follows 1.65 exactly" or whatever, but my fire wiz, and every fire wiz on the server has been at 219 +10% for years.
    Shoke wrote: »
    Bainshees are just complete crap and have been nerfed to death. Nobody plays bainshees because of how crap they are.
    Nobody plays bains because of how OP the other casters on hib are. Chanters and Eldys (This is a baseline stun conversation remember) have been top 5-7 rp's earned over the past few months. Ments are strong in their own right and Animists are great if played well.
    Shoke wrote: »
    Animists get that bomb from speccing Arb, which isn't a very good spec. Also, if you can't pre-heal an animist bomb (when you see the big glowing ball heading to you) I don't know what to tell you.
    You have to preheal the bombers. They congeal for a few seconds before all exploding at once (at which time the animist has switched to the DD debuff to hit about 6-7 x in 2 seconds. It's got nothing to do with the giant bomber. Also it's difficult to pre-heal in a keep siege situation where you don't see the bombers or know their target half the time.
    Shoke wrote: »
    I don't know, I took my information from another place that stritctly follows the 1.65 ruleset, which came out 15 years ago. I wouldn't trust BS information to have anything accurate.
    It's okay to be wrong, Light chanters only ever had the aoe melee debuff speed until a few years ago, Now they have the melee speed, absorb, melee damage debuff and heat debuff dd.
    Shoke wrote: »
    Koe wrote: »
    If elds/chanters/ments play a specific spec rather than another one that was buffed, it's only because the one they choose is stronger or more useful. Saying nobody plays that or does that because something else hib has is so much stronger only makes my point that hib casters are OP.

    That's not true. Light Eld >>>>> Void Eld, not even close. However, most Elds are void because of the Energy train, not because they are particularly good. A Spirit Cabby is way stronger than a void eld. A Dark SM is a million times better than a Void Eld. So your point is not really thought out.
    Thanks for making my point. Read above re: "or more useful".
    Shoke wrote: »
    As for Mana mentalists, the only time you play one is in PvE and in keep defense, to make sure you can piss off any serious Hib group trying to CC and single target pick opposing players. Mana mentalists are a nuisance, if they deleted the spec line nobody would care. So yeah basically any spec is better than Mana, I don't see your point.
    Again that's my point. it's a great line for getting RPS quickly by zerg surfing.
    Shoke wrote: »
    OK Bard strongest class ever. I think your argument comes from the fact that you've never played with a good pac. Bard is easier to play, but doesn't have the power of a pac. The only thing a bard has that the pac doesn't is sos.
    More than 1.0 spec points? Check. Dd insta interrupts? check. 40% mez dampening? check. Crescendo/greater Crescendo? check. High level end regen? check Significantly better resists? Check. Cure NS? Check. Instant amnesia (For those tuning in this means you can cast it on top of something else like a root, no time wasted!), Check. Baseline root of 1m13sec vs spec root of 1m9 sec/really 56sec for healers? Check. Top end weapon with Egg Rez? Check Very low spec point cost weapon stun/snare weapon styles? Check Evade 2? check.
    Shoke wrote: »
    In solo you use a horse? Who cares about speed? You're trying to make points to try to position Mid as a weak realm by adding irrelevant arguments.
    Going out on a limb in that you've never duo'ed or soloed. I'll make it simple. You damage someone and/or get damaged at the same time, The person who can pick up speed without having to stop movement for 5 seconds to call a horse +2 seconds to recapture speed, wins, whether you are trying to kite or chase. Giving chanters speed 6 makes them pretty god mode solo. It's a good thing there aren't any good solo chanters out there :expressionless:
    Shoke wrote: »
    OK, and Light tanks didn't have 3800 HP and heavies didn't have 4000 HP. I feel that scaled pretty well tbh.
    When I talked about how damage has significantly increased for casters and how with stun one caster can take out another caster or support class, (and with assists take them out easily with full heals), but couldn't when the game was new, I specifically excluded talking about tanks and stoicism/det. You don't throw a casted stun on a tank. That you went there rather than responding to my valid point doesn't make my point less valid.

    I actually believe you are the one who is biased. Your initial post was about how Hib was OP. Shoke responded how any person who has had any experience with higher level play would respond. I agree with Shoke's response and would have said the exact same thing if I wasn't at work. You are free to have an opinion but it's just that, an opinion.
  • edited January 23 PM
    Any news from Broadsword or anyone in charge? 'Cause here except do nothing and say nothing is even worse than their last patch ... In view of the game hardly playable see unplayable ( empty server or the big levels playing in group while there are only a few trio duo see solo which also no longer gives any desire to play ( @Haartcorquelquechose ) ) What answer should be given other than to unsubscribe completely?
    Post edited by Morsanto on
  • @Morsanto
    Next patch is coming until March with changes to EC.
  • edited January 23 PM
    @Koe I won't continue the debate, we wont agree and I understand you don't like stun nuke nuke.

    Couple points:
    - I didn't know calling someone a midgardian was an insult.
    - the druid spell you mentionned I believe doesn't exist. And even if it did then 50 Nature and group don't go together, so it doesn't make sense.
    - if you don't see any additional value in bolt range vs regular root range then I don't know what to tell you.
    - people play "offspecs" on various casters not because they are better, but rather because it is a requirement. You need a debuffer, and usually debuff lines are weaker than ofher lines.

    You know which are the only casters that get spec nukes in their debuffing line? I'll let you guess (they aren't on hib).

    Your argument about soloing on a chanter doesn't change even if they still had speed 4 (RM speed), the same mechanic would apply.

    So, to end this here, Hibs are the strongest realm im keep defense. Everybody knows thaf, and it's always been like this. Part of this is because of the stun nuke mechanic.
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • IMHO just reset server and bring back tower bridges. lol

    In all seriousness.....please do something fast. Game is dying and we haven’t heard a GD thing from BS that acknowledges this. Thousands of posts in the last two weeks asking for communication, countless people have unsubbed as a direct result. A simple “we hear you! We are hard at work on fixing the ever loving flop that is EC and rolling back every “balance” patch...” I’d tag Ol Johnny Broadsword but dude is obviously no longer interested in working on this game.

    It’s a damn good game....save it ffs.
    CATACUSX/Einherjarl - ASATRUAR
  • ...you don't stun when pbaoeing? Try it...it works nicely.
  • Daelin wrote: »
    I actually believe you are the one who is biased. Your initial post was about how Hib was OP. Shoke responded how any person who has had any experience with higher level play would respond. I agree with Shoke's response and would have said the exact same thing if I wasn't at work. You are free to have an opinion but it's just that, an opinion.
    You agree with what Shoke said?
    So Besides SOS bards have nothing Pac healers don't have?
    Fire Wizards have a 229+10% heat debuff DD?
    For 15 years + Light Chanters have had a DD +heat debuff, a melee damage debuff, an absorb debuff (in addition to the haste debuff they've actually had all that time)?
    Speed 5 doesn't help for solo?

    Having an opinion that something is out of balance doesn't make one biased. Especially when the realm being alleged to be out of balance has been making twice as many rps as the other realms. You mention "higher level play". Have 8mans ever made 4m rps a week/toon on any realm but hib? Feel free to link to when/who. I can't recall that. For every death there's a player who died. If there's that much disparity and imbalance -and you know there is, you just want it to continue:)- it's bad for the game because it's not balanced and that will cause people to leave, or join Hib. The numbers sure support my argument.
  • edited January 23 PM
    INACA wrote: »
    IMHO just reset server and bring back tower bridges. lol

    In all seriousness.....please do something fast. Game is dying and we haven’t heard a GD thing from BS that acknowledges this. Thousands of posts in the last two weeks asking for communication, countless people have unsubbed as a direct result. A simple “we hear you! We are hard at work on fixing the ever loving flop that is EC and rolling back every “balance” patch...” I’d tag Ol Johnny Broadsword but dude is obviously no longer interested in working on this game.

    It’s a damn good game....save it ffs.

    Actually, they said what they are doing. Now what we have to do is wait.
    So either be patient or quit. But dont make drama plz.

    But some more ideas how to increase population would be helpful...yea.
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • @Kroko full on drank the kool-aid.

    We have an extremely vague idea of what they are doing at BEST.....

    Also, no drama!? Do you read these forums?

    35 Mids in NF last night around 7:00 PM cst...... the pop has dropped considerably in the past two weeks as players have become fed up with the state of the game and the lack of acknowledgement from BS.

    @Carol_Broadsword is awesome, and is fully appreciated. She has a tough job and is really the only public voice for BS. That being said she is in the tough spot of either not being involved with the development roadmap or cannot share details. Ol JohnnyB needs to step up. This forum is going to be a lasting reminder that he drove a damn good game into the ground.
    CATACUSX/Einherjarl - ASATRUAR
  • Population was bound to drop after the holidays. It always does. However, the current garbage with Hibs running wild over this game and being virtually unbeatable in any type of siege situation is driving more people away than what would typically be associated with seasonal pop. flux.

    I place a ton of blame for that on those choosing to play hib when they could help the alb/mid populations.

    People choosing the tree because it is currently easy mode and Herorius has secured relics for them are, IMO, just as at fault for killing the game as BS is. (I've always contended that a toxic player base is one of the game's biggest issues)
  • Kroko wrote: »
    Actually, they said what they are doing. Now what we have to do is wait.

    Stating they are working on EC is fine even though they've been working on it now for well over a year. The question is, what parts of EC are they working on? Restrictions. Which ones? What is being considered? What's off the table? What would bring players back? I guess we have to wait until they release the patch notes before we can even discuss it since we have no idea where they're at.
    Kroko wrote: »
    But some more ideas how to increase population would be helpful...yea.

    Again, we can't have a meaningful discussion about this unless it's initiated by the dev team. Nearly all feedback at this point has been reactive to changes made. Feedback needs to be proactive and transparent so they can minimize time spent on damage control after each patch. EC was the patch to do this with but that ball has already dropped.

    Honestly, Broadsword doesn't need to do any of this. But they should, at minimum, be clear about their stance on design choices they make instead of saying it's rhetorical.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • .
    Kroko wrote: »
    INACA wrote: »
    IMHO just reset server and bring back tower bridges. lol

    In all seriousness.....please do something fast. Game is dying and we haven’t heard a GD thing from BS that acknowledges this. Thousands of posts in the last two weeks asking for communication, countless people have unsubbed as a direct result. A simple “we hear you! We are hard at work on fixing the ever loving flop that is EC and rolling back every “balance” patch...” I’d tag Ol Johnny Broadsword but dude is obviously no longer interested in working on this game.

    It’s a damn good game....save it ffs.

    Actually, they said what they are doing. Now what we have to do is wait.
    So either be patient or quit. But dont make drama plz.

    But some more ideas how to increase population would be helpful...yea.

    So they've stated what adjustments they intend make to EC? Have they given details about the classic server coming this year beyond that it's a classic server and that they intend to somehow utilize it to bring classic players onto Ywain? People have given extensive feedback on EC and there's a recent thread right now speculating about details about the classic server, both of which are incredibly important topics that could easily be considered "ideas to increase population." Yes, we have a vague idea of what they intend to do (change EC and add a classic server), but actual details are either incredibly vague or non-existent.
  • Koe wrote: »
    Daelin wrote: »
    I actually believe you are the one who is biased. Your initial post was about how Hib was OP. Shoke responded how any person who has had any experience with higher level play would respond. I agree with Shoke's response and would have said the exact same thing if I wasn't at work. You are free to have an opinion but it's just that, an opinion.
    You agree with what Shoke said?
    So Besides SOS bards have nothing Pac healers don't have?
    Fire Wizards have a 229+10% heat debuff DD?
    For 15 years + Light Chanters have had a DD +heat debuff, a melee damage debuff, an absorb debuff (in addition to the haste debuff they've actually had all that time)?
    Speed 5 doesn't help for solo?

    Having an opinion that something is out of balance doesn't make one biased. Especially when the realm being alleged to be out of balance has been making twice as many rps as the other realms. You mention "higher level play". Have 8mans ever made 4m rps a week/toon on any realm but hib? Feel free to link to when/who. I can't recall that. For every death there's a player who died. If there's that much disparity and imbalance -and you know there is, you just want it to continue:)- it's bad for the game because it's not balanced and that will cause people to leave, or join Hib. The numbers sure support my argument.

    What I agree with Shoke on is the rebuttal to your arguments. Casting stun into pbae = irrelevant, 1875 range root vs 1500, and taking a nature druid into a group just for an insta deroot on a 10 min timer isn't worth it. Also stating that bard is the most OP char of all is just silly. I would go on but honestly, no matter what is said you will continue to state Hib is OP! So I too will not continue this discussion. Have a good day.
  • How is stunning someone before pbaoeing them irrelevant? I'm dumbfounded by this. Perhaps if you're standing in a lord room on a stack of pbaoe'ers in a zerg on zerg fight yea...you're not going to stop and stun a single target. But in small man/solo hell yes, I'm stunning that mofo before I run onto him and pb him down with the ultimate cheese. No other pbaoe class can do that alone. Wizzy/cabby would get interrupted, perhaps a SM can do it with his BS intercepting pet but still... Eld/Chanter can both pull it off easily.
  • Tyrantanic wrote: »
    Stating they are working on EC is fine even though they've been working on it now for well over a year. The question is, what parts of EC are they working on? Restrictions. Which ones? What is being considered? What's off the table? What would bring players back? I guess we have to wait until they release the patch notes before we can even discuss it since we have no idea where they're at.

    So you want a everyday report about the current status? With 100s of "maybe this..", "maybe that...". Not sure if that is of any help. Also its not standard that they share every of their thoughts with the playerbase.
    Drane wrote: »
    .
    So they've stated what adjustments they intend make to EC? Have they given details about the classic server coming this year beyond that it's a classic server and that they intend to somehow utilize it to bring classic players onto Ywain? People have given extensive feedback on EC and there's a recent thread right now speculating about details about the classic server, both of which are incredibly important topics that could easily be considered "ideas to increase population." Yes, we have a vague idea of what they intend to do (change EC and add a classic server), but actual details are either incredibly vague or non-existent.

    They said, details about new server are not yet clear. So what should they say on that?
  • Kroko wrote: »
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    Stating they are working on EC is fine even though they've been working on it now for well over a year. The question is, what parts of EC are they working on? Restrictions. Which ones? What is being considered? What's off the table? What would bring players back? I guess we have to wait until they release the patch notes before we can even discuss it since we have no idea where they're at.

    So you want a everyday report about the current status? With 100s of "maybe this..", "maybe that...". Not sure if that is of any help. Also its not standard that they share every of their thoughts with the playerbase.

    I'd settle for a monthly report. They already have the medium setup through newsletters but they're so vague it's meaningless. What have I learned this month as opposed to last month? Nothing. That's the status quo.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • is @Kroko just a @John_Broadsword burner account? i think so
  • edited January 23 PM
    Kroko wrote: »
    They said, details about new server are not yet clear. So what should they say on that?

    Start an open discussion about the potential options they're considering (they have to have at least some idea of what they want to do with a classic server, since they said they intend for it to be an on-ramp for getting more people on Ywain) and gather targeted feedback about those options now while there's still time to react based on that feedback, rather keeping everyone in the dark until they've already set their direction in stone, at which point it'll be too late to make significant changes in response to community feedback/reactions until months after launch when initial impressions have already been made.
    Post edited by Drane on
  • KatKat
    edited January 23 PM
    Mace80 wrote: »
    How is stunning someone before pbaoeing them irrelevant? I'm dumbfounded by this. Perhaps if you're standing in a lord room on a stack of pbaoe'ers in a zerg on zerg fight yea...you're not going to stop and stun a single target. But in small man/solo hell yes, I'm stunning that mofo before I run onto him and pb him down with the ultimate cheese. No other pbaoe class can do that alone. Wizzy/cabby would get interrupted, perhaps a SM can do it with his BS intercepting pet but still... Eld/Chanter can both pull it off easily.

    I have stated this numerous times. Yes, BS is responsible for the patches that have ruined the game. But, people have free choice, and are quite happy destroying what population is left in the game - exploiting BS's mistakes...as long as they get their rps. This goes for both stealth zergers and the Hib zergers. In time, all that will be left playing is the hib zerg taking undefended keeps, and stealth zergers. idk...maybe that is enough of a population to pay the bills..../shrug
    Post edited by Kat on
    Stealth zergs are a cancer
  • Kat wrote: »
    I have stated this numerous times. Yes, BS is responsible for the patches that have ruined the game. But, people have free choice, and are quite happy destroying what population is left in the game - exploiting BS's mistakes...as long as they get their rps. This goes for both stealth zergers and the Hib zergers. In time, all that will be left playing is the hib zerg taking undefended keeps, and stealth zergers. idk...maybe that is enough of a population to pay the bills..../shrug

    At that point they could start offering free Ywain -> Gaheris transfers so at least their PvEing will keep gaining them RPs.
  • Kroko wrote: »
    @Morsanto
    Next patch is coming until March with changes to EC.

    Anyone but me will find this time too long while there are other solutions faster and simpler than making a fix ... the unsubscribe will actually damage ....
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