Something need to be done with sins poison , and stealth zerg

edited September 2018 in General Board
Sins poison need a nerf and please make stealth like it was before , invisible for groupmate except if you stay closer .
Post edited by Hellblast on

Comments

  • I agree with reverting group stealth to the original. Also the only poison that potentially needs tweaking is the snare. It needs an immunity timer, 15s or something before it can be reapplied.
  • edited October 2018 PM
    All poisons need a revamp. Before poison patch, if any sin wanted multiple poisons, they had to preemptively plan with multiple weapons. Some people might think this was too much, but what it did was separate the bad from the elite. But most importantly it made sure that assassin fights that lasted more than 3 rounds of poisons (aka about 12 different weapons miniumum) NEVER happened. Because it's not f*cking supposed to!!

    Why should a 'sin fight ever last more than 5 minutes where the 'sin comes out on top? 'Sins are all about opportunity and before, if you whiffed on that opportunity you would lose the fight. NOW I see 'sins literally tanking HEAVIES for 8-10 minutes+... because they can infinitely recast their poisons...

    Also, it makes groups of stealthers more powerful (which currently we are seeing a "problem" with stealth groups/zergs "ruining" action or w/e) because they can coordinate a single "poison dump" on each target in succession more easily (aka everyone start with this poison and drop this target in 2 seconds then we don't have to worry about re-applying before next target because we can all hit the next target with 4 debuffs at once... AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN).

    Anyways, getting to a solution, I absolutely agree with @Amp_Phetamine that snare poison should have an immunity. If not an immunity, it should have a recast timer of 30s or more because the current situation is, that poison can be up every 6-out-of-8 seconds of combat iirc, which is absolutely game changing. Also, the ability to reset fights on a sin repeatedly has got to go. Increasing snare recast timer or putting an immunity on snare would help combat this... and also increasing the recast timer on mez poison to something greater than 1 min (3min preferably) would be more realisti (don't forget originlal mez poison could only be casted once every 45-minutes, and even tough you could store them in vault let's be honest nobody ever had as much of a "supply" as insta-cast 1min R-U-timer of a mez poison that we have now...)

    Also, the fact that I can go from hitting 'sins for 600-800 a swing down to 200-250 a swing with weaponskill poison AND -20% melee damage poisons that stack is also something I never even encountered in a 'sin fight pre-assassin patch..

    @Carol_Broadsword and @John_Broadsword I wonder if you can shed some light on if patch 1.125 has addressed any of these suggestions (which I know are nothing new) for Assassin class balances. Or, if anything, please acknowledge that assassins a nerf (although I don't want to call it a nerf as much as reverting back to the old poison system or keep the same easy-to-use poison system you have created now, but make it comparable to the old poison system AKA separating elite from the bad)

    Post edited by Armagedden on
  • what @Armagedden said.

    Assassins got way too many tools with easy access thise days, personally i quit playing my assassins, to me they became boring and easy mode, i liked weapon swapping to apply poisons cause things like fighting multiple imo atleast took some thinking and planning as you only had a set ammount of weapons and debuffs for applying and reapplying after possible purges.
  • give classes the ability to buy with RR points remedy. 5 points every 15 min, last 20 sec.
  • edited October 2018 PM
    Remedy 4 all !! :D

    Sorry that can`t be the solution. I play no Assassin class, but if they make remedy available for all i`d like to have some kind of active anti-cc RA for all classes.

    And yes, snare + mezz poisons are way over the top atm.

    Btw, weaken classes like Assasins and Archers is one reason why they group.

    Prevention: Flop, stop posting your scout vids, you`re good on each class. :D
    Post edited by Stoertebecker on
  • edited October 2018 PM
    To be honest, I don't think this would be such an issue if not for the issue BS created by putting game changing heal procs/charges combined with the fact that most jack up their HP's and + to heal effectiveness. I will admit, as I did on Postcount, that the snare poison really irks me. It doesn't lose snare on dmg, it lasts damn near as long as its reuse timer which means it can always be up, and with that up the whole time in a fight allows sins to either positional the crap out of you or run away and reset until your toys are down. As @Armagedden stated, the sin was always supposed to be nasty at the start of a fight and the longer the fight lasted the less chance the sin had of winning. Now that has flip flopped and sin's do just fine, if not better once they drag the fight out.

    For the record, I don't know what you can do to fix the heal proc/charge issue short of removing the + to heal effectiveness or at least altering it so it only works on cast heals and not on charges/procs. I agree that the snare poison just needs a longer re-use timer on it. I say make it a 1 minute re-use timer. So you pop it, its up for 15 seconds, then down for 45 seconds before it can be reapplied. This makes it so if you want to use it as a kiting tool or a get away tool you can, but you can't just keep it on a target the entire time and sprint/perform positionals like crazy AND still use it as a kiting tool.

    I also could see going back to the old system of using normal stealth detection for group mates. It won't stop anyone from grouping, but it will make communication that much more key for these stealther groups to have success.

    I try to be impartial and honest when having these debates about character balance and not let emotion or my own personal experiences impact my thinking on these issues, but I do have to agree with @Stoertebecker that making drastic changes to these classes does indeed push these classes into grouping more.
    Post edited by RonELuvv on
  • It wont matter if things get changed, or if they do not. People are going to continue to group /zerg because everyone is afraid to die in a video game for some reason. Ive ran into 1-2fg of stealth on my SB and get ZEPHYR'd lol, like 16 of you cant kill me before I get your homie o.O. So again doesn't matter if they make changes or not, the only place these changes will matter is your precious bow towns.
  • skeetz wrote: »
    It wont matter if things get changed, or if they do not. People are going to continue to group /zerg because everyone is afraid to die in a video game for some reason. Ive ran into 1-2fg of stealth on my SB and get ZEPHYR'd lol, like 16 of you cant kill me before I get your homie o.O. So again doesn't matter if they make changes or not, the only place these changes will matter is your precious bow towns.

    We`re on Stealthgroups, not on visible groups/zergs, and there are reasons why Assasins and Archers Group.

    - Quest XP-Bonus
    - Archer/Assassins are weak, compared to these classes 5 years ago or more
    - less risk of dying in a group
    - because its fun :)

    I´d like to run more solo, like i did 2005-2008 on Gareth. But if i look on the damage output as a ranger, compared to other classes and how powerful they are now...sorry, that isn`t fun 90% of the time.

    Running with 398dex, 49/50 +20 bow, Fe9 and hitting a caster within the same RR-Range for 150-200 damage and for another 80 crit (with luck), muhahaha, no sorry...grouping is more fun and efficient.
    Westies hit you for 984 damage, Lilywain hits you for 1080 damage...boom....on 4x/ resists, cool stuff.
    Even my damage cap with critshot on the lvl 1 target dummy is way less....

    Special thx to BS for making stealth groups the meta. :)
  • edited October 2018 PM
    skeetz wrote: »
    It wont matter if things get changed, or if they do not. People are going to continue to group /zerg because everyone is afraid to die in a video game for some reason. Ive ran into 1-2fg of stealth on my SB and get ZEPHYR'd lol, like 16 of you cant kill me before I get your homie o.O. So again doesn't matter if they make changes or not, the only place these changes will matter is your precious bow towns.

    We`re on Stealthgroups, not on visible groups/zergs, and there are reasons why Assasins and Archers Group.

    - Quest XP-Bonus
    - Archer/Assassins are weak, compared to these classes 5 years ago or more
    - less risk of dying in a group
    - because its fun :)

    I´d like to run more solo, like i did 2005-2008 on Gareth. But if i look on the damage output as a ranger, compared to other classes and how powerful they are now...sorry, that isn`t fun 90% of the time.

    Running with 398dex, 49/50 +20 bow, Fe9 and hitting a caster within the same RR-Range for 150-200 damage and for another 80 crit (with luck), muhahaha, no sorry...grouping is more fun and efficient.
    Westies hit you for 984 damage, Lilywain hits you for 1080 damage...boom....on 4x/ resists, cool stuff.
    Even my damage cap with critshot on the lvl 1 target dummy is way less....

    Special thx to BS for making stealth groups the meta. :)

    Hmm, something doesn't add up here... Were you shooting a 50 mind sorc with full passive buffs up? I know they get abs(?) buff that reduces their dps output but gives them significant defense.

    I get hit by hybrid archers for more dps on my armsman than your dps on a caster.. it's not passing the smell test atm.

    Edit: You should only be comparing your dps against the other archer archtypes. That'd be like me saying my polearm positional style only caps at 600dps yet berzerkers with banespike and vendo can easily out damage me...
    Post edited by Amp_Phetamine on

  • Hmm, something doesn't add up here... Were you shooting a 50 mind sorc with full passive buffs up? I know they get abs(?) buff that reduces their dps output but gives them significant defense.

    Happened on different casters, and no, i did not switch realms and ask * Wtf are you running?*.
    Edit: You should only be comparing your dps against the other archer archtypes. That'd be like me saying my polearm positional style only caps at 600dps yet berzerkers with banespike and vendo can easily out damage me...

    I compare Archery Damage to all classes where i`d say that should be possible, or that was possible years ago.
    I compare it with players on my skill level and within the same rr range (maybe +/s 2-3 rr`s).

    And i can tell you that archers have the very short side of the stick, and that is one reason why they group more than running solo. No, i don`t think BS should reverse some class changes, they`ll make it even worse.
    Maybe a timer for mezz/snare poisons, but hands off from all other stuff.



    *294 damage with standard shot on a rr12 nightshade in a duell, testing stuff... full buffed, 4x crush resist.
    And he hits me with his insta-dd and cast-dd for 250 each, on 40 cold resist.

  • On my Ranger with a 412 buffed Dex I rarely hit a caster for more than around 500ish with Critshot or Powershot. Maybe 280-330 Standardshot. Yet I get hit by casters for 800+ on a regular basis with maxed resists. So, yeah, it’s kinda why we group.
  • can someone tell these god awful archers to quit using standard shot


    all they do is bitch about how much it sux, THEN USE THE SHOT THAT DOES WAY MORE DAMAGE what are you dumb ?
  • Yes but imo casters SHOULD hit harder since they ONLY have spells. Archers can and do use both styles during their fights. Rangers and Hunters have good Melee potential. Scouts a little less so than others. I don't think Archers are intended to have the DPS output of a caster while also being able to hold their own for the most part in a melee situation.
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  • edited October 2018 PM
    if you have problems with casters 1v1 on an archer you need to find a new class to play


    aside from a very well played mentalist because rr5 is ALWAYS up and ridiculously op if they aren't dumb and understand the concept of cc (which youll prob never run into)

    ok well and sm's because the guard pet blocks every shot
    Post edited by Huehuaehue on
  • Sm pet does not block arrows.
  • I was just posting my damage against casters. I know I am not a great solo player. Still love this game despite those that think solo play is the only way to determine their greatness over others. I really don’t give a . lol
  • yes it does rofl, id say about 9 out of 10 for sure

    unless powerful or point blank of course that are on timers and go thro anyhting
  • edited October 2018 PM
    Huehuaehue wrote: »
    if you have problems with casters 1v1 on an archer you need to find a new class to play


    aside from a very well played mentalist because rr5 is ALWAYS up and ridiculously op if they aren't dumb and understand the concept of cc (which youll prob never run into)

    ok well and sm's because the guard pet blocks every shot

    I would tend to agree with the majority of your statement. SM's are rough IF well played. Mainly due to the numerous forms of CC they can use imo. I don't play other realms besides Hib so I can't say I have fought many ment's, but I have seen enough fight other realm archers to know they can be rough. Tic's DESTROY ranged stealthers. BD's would be pretty tough (except on a ranger w/ their RR5 up). Warlocks can also be tough. Now that I think about it, I think it might be easier to say which casters are easy on a ranged stealther rather than saying ones that are difficult. I believe I have only fought your Wizard once and you got me, but you used MoC and I had nothing up and I made it at least an interesting fight. :)

    I will say that Phatboi was telling me awhile back about using long shot on casters even if they are not far away because it debuffs casting speed a decent amount for a decent amount of time. That has helped, but there are alot of casters that will just beat the crap out of a ranged stealther. Not saying its right or wrong, just true. I'm certainly not a "god awful archer". Not the best, but not bad either.
    Post edited by RonELuvv on
  • Huehuaehue wrote: »
    can someone tell these god awful archers to quit using standard shot


    all they do is bitch about how much it sux, THEN USE THE SHOT THAT DOES WAY MORE DAMAGE what are you dumb ?
    Since the drawtime is longer it makes nearly no difference, you should know that. :)
  • edited October 2018 PM
    I do know that, that's why I don't use the shitty standard shot and use lithic, which delves and hits for WAY more lol

    im not fking retarded


    and yes I forgot wl and bd roneluve that's true, but most casters is easy as ****, use big shots and **** on them before they even know whats going on

    people need to take standard shot off their bar unless they are fighting heavy tanks or vamps
    Post edited by Huehuaehue on
  • sorry to be rude ijsut dun understand hwy people have 2 shots, 1 hits for like 179 ? other hits for 209? and u guys use the 179 one ? I don't get it

    elemental shots hit everyone for like 450 before crits, run fe9 for 40% crit chance, u hit for like 600-700 damn near every time or every other time

    its not rocket science
  • to put it simply, standard shot is like a yellow nuke, elemental is a red nuke, would you use a yellow nuke instead of your red 1 on a caster ? no lol

    so don't use your shitty ass shot on an archer either
  • Huehuaehue wrote: »
    sorry to be rude ijsut dun understand hwy people have 2 shots, 1 hits for like 179 ? other hits for 209? and u guys use the 179 one ? I don't get it

    elemental shots hit everyone for like 450 before crits, run fe9 for 40% crit chance, u hit for like 600-700 damn near every time or every other time

    its not rocket science

    Hibernia has no lithic, only enthropic and pyro (which delves still the same). Problem with elemental shots is that you can stack magic resist higher than melee resists, just some AoM and you`re set. I have ~45% magic resists on my ranger.

    From your example...if you shot someone 5 times for 179 or 4 times for 209, at the end it`s nearly the same, with a slight advantage on the standard shot. And...the elemental shot is just to slow in some situations, make it 4.2 speed and i use it. :)

    I have FE9, and i jump and cry like a 4 month old each time i hit with powershot for 5xx and 9x crit, amazing value for 34 ra points !! The average crit value is at 40-50% of the damage and far from every 2nd shot.
    But since it`s the only ra that can enhance archery damage.....

    Archery Damage is sh...and that`s one reason (not the only) why archers group, but raising the damage a bit wouldn`t solve the problem with the stealth groups.
  • Funny thing is groups are adding stealthers or stealth lore toons and popping us. One of the most interesting things I find in this game is that it evolves. Seems most upset folks are solers and small man groups. If I recall this game was designed to be the WHOLE realm against the other two. Yes, I am in a guild where we can field almost 2fgs of stealthers every night but many nights we coordinate with our alliance for the good of our realm.
  • no, no.... no


    use elemental shots or be a fking bad noob. it hits way harder then standard shot on every realm, you only use standard shot on a heavy tanky or if a vamp puts up magic resist, or a stealthier you have problems with runs aom9, which is gonna be like less then 1% of your encounters

    DO NOT think standard shot is good DO NOT believe what you read DO NOT resort to paper daoc, USE elemental shots go fe9 and be absouletely devasting throwing bolts from stealth every shot

    I don't care what you read I don't care what you think I don't care what you've been told

    use the big shots not the shitty ones, and you will reap the rewards of the proper

    Trust me, Please
  • If i want elemental damage i use a leg bow.

    I don`t think standard shot is good, but even a caster without dex will interupt your elemental shot each time. :D

  • You just wanna trick me/us into elemental shots for more vids of dumb hib stealth zergs getting ganked by a solo wizard.... confess !! :D
  • The crazy hit points and heal procs are an issue with all classes and make fights last way longer than they should. As far as assassins go these types of problems are so noticeable because the vast majority are in groups now. I reactivated a few months ago after roughly 11 years and I'm still adjusting to all of these changes (i.e. not doing too well).

    I think the crit strike spec line also needs to be looked at because it doesn't do the "devastating" damage that it says. As an example, I attacked a warlock the other day on my infiltrator, rr4 and warlock rr6, and got annihilated. I landed the entire perf chain(PA hit for around 330), got disease and dot poisons on him in addition to the garrote chain a couple of times while he was stunned. All of this only got him to about 30ish% health. After that he lit me up and I died with him up around 60-70%. My infiltrator was specced at that time 48 crit/48env/51 composite weapon. I've never played a warlock but I didn't think that a cloth wearing caster would survive through all of that. Working as intended?
  • You just wanna trick me/us into elemental shots for more vids of dumb hib stealth zergs getting ganked by a solo wizard.... confess !! :D

    standard shot is **** terrible man
  • Ophidian wrote: »
    The crazy hit points and heal procs are an issue with all classes and make fights last way longer than they should. As far as assassins go these types of problems are so noticeable because the vast majority are in groups now. I reactivated a few months ago after roughly 11 years and I'm still adjusting to all of these changes (i.e. not doing too well).

    I think the crit strike spec line also needs to be looked at because it doesn't do the "devastating" damage that it says. As an example, I attacked a warlock the other day on my infiltrator, rr4 and warlock rr6, and got annihilated. I landed the entire perf chain(PA hit for around 330), got disease and dot poisons on him in addition to the garrote chain a couple of times while he was stunned. All of this only got him to about 30ish% health. After that he lit me up and I died with him up around 60-70%. My infiltrator was specced at that time 48 crit/48env/51 composite weapon. I've never played a warlock but I didn't think that a cloth wearing caster would survive through all of that. Working as intended?

    Any solo warlock you see will be running some high'ish level of physical defense. That's were the damage mitigation came into play. As a witchcraft warlock you also have the ability to UI cast 3 of the 4 dot spells (the first one is an instant) and can quick cast to land doom. Generally, even with the damage mitigation using the UI primer, that is enough dps to drop nearly anything that isn't a heavy or super high AoM.
  • Ophidian wrote: »
    The crazy hit points and heal procs are an issue with all classes and make fights last way longer than they should. As far as assassins go these types of problems are so noticeable because the vast majority are in groups now. I reactivated a few months ago after roughly 11 years and I'm still adjusting to all of these changes (i.e. not doing too well).

    I think the crit strike spec line also needs to be looked at because it doesn't do the "devastating" damage that it says. As an example, I attacked a warlock the other day on my infiltrator, rr4 and warlock rr6, and got annihilated. I landed the entire perf chain(PA hit for around 330), got disease and dot poisons on him in addition to the garrote chain a couple of times while he was stunned. All of this only got him to about 30ish% health. After that he lit me up and I died with him up around 60-70%. My infiltrator was specced at that time 48 crit/48env/51 composite weapon. I've never played a warlock but I didn't think that a cloth wearing caster would survive through all of that. Working as intended?

    Any solo warlock you see will be running some high'ish level of physical defense. That's were the damage mitigation came into play. As a witchcraft warlock you also have the ability to UI cast 3 of the 4 dot spells (the first one is an instant) and can quick cast to land doom. Generally, even with the damage mitigation using the UI primer, that is enough dps to drop nearly anything that isn't a heavy or super high AoM.

    And throw in healing spells they have access to as well. Warlocks are no joke.
  • Just wait till the stupidness of alb stl zergs with ST’s now. Or the advantage of having a stealth wall climb classes to sneak into a courtyard and st drop behind the enemy while a push happens. Smart move BS
  • Please send in feedback.
  • ST from stealth auehauehauehauehaeuh

  • Makes me wonder what they were thinking with minstrels specifically and ST.
  • Yeah this will most likely be changed to *cough* armsmen *cough* some other class. I could see giving paladins access to ST instead of minstrils.
  • Huehuaehue wrote: »
    You just wanna trick me/us into elemental shots for more vids of dumb hib stealth zergs getting ganked by a solo wizard.... confess !! :D

    standard shot is **** terrible man

    Just confess and we`re good :)

    ST on a minstrel. They have some nice stuff to smoke in the BS office. :D :D
  • ST on a minstrel. They have some nice stuff to smoke in the BS office. :D :D

    well we can agree on that ^^ lol
  • Soon, we will complain about Minstrel zergs. SOS and ST always up! lol
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