My solution for giving solo small man and random pugs action

Ok so I play most types of play in game I’m mainly known for my zerging but surprisingly most of what I run now is random small man and random pugs.
What I have found is that there is no where to go.
Most action is on the island dominated by zergs or irc.
If it’s not the island it’s the central or relic keeps.
I would like to see the return of the Dopples or something similar in many more locations maybe next to coastal keeps and mazes and solo zones but only for group credit and solo.
Where each of group member or solo player gets 1000 rps.
If a Zerg hits it only the Group that kills the Dopple gets the 1000 rps.
This would give solos small man and pug groups places to roam and fight others leaving irc to fight other irc on island.
And the zergs to fight other zergs and take coastal keeps for port.
Give the zergs a purpose other than relics
Make the spawn random and in many places I know we have them now but it’s bounty points it’s no incentive for anyone.
This would bring people back to game and actually incentify people to roam.
Now people will say yeh but that’s just gonna mean people will get to rr12 killing dopples my response would be so how can people get titles now just by zerging is that good for game surely it’s better for people to get out there in pugs solos and smalll man and actually give new players a chance to make rps.
We seen this with the turkey legs how good the action was it’s not all about leet players and zergs give the casual players and solos something to do any thoughts john@broadsword

Comments

  • On another note most people coming back to game say the same where can we go it’s just zergs and leet groups if you spread action out like that it gives people opportunities to roam and actually have fights irc or leet groups won’t be able to camp one spot the rps just aren’t there and if they did people would yell in region and move somewhere else again bgs ain’t gonna run around getting 1000 points each for one group in a bg just not there worthwhile
  • edited February 16 PM
    Doppels are a nice addition to sprinkle on top of an already functioning design, but they cannot be the main design. They are too rare to provide any kind of satisfactory experience between kills, not to mention the frustration of competing with realmmates for doppel rewards.

    I think there is far more potential in quests like rubble/boxes, because they can provide a more constant experience for everyone simultaneously. They need to be re-designed, but they have so much potential.
    Post edited by audizmann on
  • You could add something at the old random NF buggane spawn locations. Something small mans could fight over but keep it small like a + to artifact/xp gain or something else that wouldn't interest the large BGs.
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • Doppels were an example but my main point is that the island is sewn up small man pugs and solos have no where to go the turkey led quest though only in a small area was great fun something like that in random areas with decent rp rewards would really revitalise pug action both small 8 and solo
  • Not just small mans but pug groups credit for groups and solos
  • If you make it only group credit why would bgs go there only one group who gets kill gets credit or one solo
  • Where’s the frustration when they random Spawn and they spawn in different locations at same time doppels for fun years ago but people said they were an easy way to get rps my point in it’s no different to zerging but at least you would get group on group or solo on solo action all over map just need a good number of spawn
  • Remove RP bonuses from players in battle groups.
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
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  • edited February 17 PM
    do any of this, but remove all forms of self/group porting. make ppl run or drown or cide on guards. or omg actually open a port.

    frustrating reading intel of hib grp camping a spot in pennine, only to get there and figure out they have actually soj ported out.

    create some lineal play where you can predict movements.
    Post edited by tald on
  • edited February 17 PM
    Dont know if I advocate getting RPs for PvE.

    Not a bad idea, but remove the part where you get Rps for pve.
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • Ok so I get the rps for pve argument but at the same time isn’t that what the zergs are doing especially the hero Zerg it’s creating a stale environment the reason people join the zergs is a social life and no brain rps with doppels it allows casuals to get rps but most importantly form pugs small mans and solos all over map.
    If you come back to game you get to fight similar type ability to yourself it reduces irc groups farming as the spawn is random and mao wise but at same time promotes actin
    I am not advocating ports to the dopple location or what ever broadsword wanna to call it I’m sayijg the spawn could be near coastal keeps like the old buggans moving or mazes or solo zine just get action away from zergs and agramon people need to break out of the cycle.
    The dopple location is not a port it’s a pure and simple u kill it each group member gets 1000 rps if your solo 1000 rps if your a Zerg only the group that kills it gets credit.
    Something needs to be done for casual pugs and small men and solos
  • edited February 17 PM
    Maybe dont increase the rps/kill, but change the quest for doppels that already exists. So you get a decent amount of rps for finishing the quest, but you can do the quest only 1x/day. This would cap the amount of rps you get each day.
    At the same time introduce more of those doppelgangers in locations away from the island, but reduce the rps/kill, or even remove it.
    But please dont introduce any doppels in solo zones. We dont need smallmen running there.
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • I would like to add a suggestion. Make the solo quest repeatable, not daily. It would encourage solo players to keep playing.
    Stealth zergs are a cancer
  • I disagree you need a simple way of getting rps in the game that will pull casuals away from zergs into pugs or small man groups the locations can be anywhere.
    But this will generate action all over map getting rps this way is irelevant we have 100s of rr12s in this game who have sat on there asses outside a keep group healing 8 hours a day seven days a week how is that good for game and how is it any different to people at least attempting to roam form groups and have the chance of a fight and decent rps.
    Or do we just want hero and irc with there pbaoe groups to farm everything every day are these game enhancing ways to get rps.
    Seriously we need a debate on what rps are for in the general sense we know they boost your character but where does it lead.
    Seriously need to think about casuals and pugs in the game they are the bottom of food chain and at the moment they are starving they have one choice join a Zerg or run around island solo zones and hope to kill Zerg stragglers or solos or duos.
    Game really needs a bleeding shake up
  • edited February 17 PM
    Getting RR12 by farming doppels is not a way.
    Maybe the amount of rps needs to be set appropriately. 1000 is a bit much, if there are many more doppels.
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • Live could benefit from a revamped task system. Have a general task that provides a small amount of RPs for RvR participation so players that have bad luck still make some. Also include a rotating task with a set objective: capture a keep or tower or hold onto a mino-relic for some predetermined amount of time (drops if you port, enter a keep/tower, walk through a mile gate, etc.) Something like this could add a lot of fun to the current stale RvR situation. Something like this is already implemented elsewhere. BS should take a look to see what works and make it better suited for Ywain.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
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  • I would be ok with the old 400 RPs per group Member. With 1000 RPs you could probably make like 15k+ per hour which seems a bit too much.

    But in general, there needs to be something done for Smallmans/PUGs. Right now you can roam an hour without finding any enemies except set groups on ev or zerg fights at supply chain keeps.
  • 15k/hour is nothing lol
  • BS created too much incentive with the large bonus rewards for tower and keep takes/defenses. Within 3 mins on my log in Friday night, i ported to one of the EV towers, assisted in 7 to 10 kills, made @ 15k rps, and because the tower was also under seige, i receieved a 15k bonus for defense... ill gladly take 30k in 3 mins, and its definitely not the norm, but theres no way theyre gonna offer those kind of rps for killing doppels.

    Ill play here though... its not always about rps, right? Sometimes its about the challenge. I say go for it. If BS will implement such a thing, maybe it will change it up a bit.

    They removed a lot of the quest that generated action. Several years ago there were box quest along each realms coastal keeps shoreline/lakes. The mission was to gather 10? (maybe 15 boxes). It was similar to the supplies quest, but with a larger spawn radius. I enjoyed that action. Why BS in their infinite wisdom decided this was a bad quest, but then implemented the 100 barrel quest on the island is beyond my comprehension.
  • 15k/hour is nothing lol

    right, but 15k/hour from mobs is sth different
  • tald wrote: »
    do any of this, but remove all forms of self/group porting. make ppl run or drown or cide on guards. or omg actually open a port.

    frustrating reading intel of hib grp camping a spot in pennine, only to get there and figure out they have actually soj ported out.

    create some lineal play where you can predict movements.

    I 100% agree with Tald there. Movement is a bit over the top right now. You can't really roam and run into people, because frankly nobody has to run around to reach objectives/fights. You just port/boat to everywhere you need to go.

    It's ridiculous that you can see spam of a group down by a relic keep, start heading EV to find fights and within 20-30 seconds they are jamming your fight.
  • Shoke wrote: »
    tald wrote: »
    do any of this, but remove all forms of self/group porting. make ppl run or drown or cide on guards. or omg actually open a port.

    frustrating reading intel of hib grp camping a spot in pennine, only to get there and figure out they have actually soj ported out.

    create some lineal play where you can predict movements.

    I 100% agree with Tald there. Movement is a bit over the top right now. You can't really roam and run into people, because frankly nobody has to run around to reach objectives/fights. You just port/boat to everywhere you need to go.

    It's ridiculous that you can see spam of a group down by a relic keep, start heading EV to find fights and within 20-30 seconds they are jamming your fight.

    That's what's killing it for me as of late.
    Listen to the people - they will guide you..
  • Removing Port to EV towers would help with toning down mobility of groups.
  • So what does the player base want? Zerg action, set 8v8, or small man / PUG's. I think all of us posting here don't like the zerg action, but during peak times over the weekend Hero and friends had huge numbers. Is that because zerging is fun or there aren't any other options for fun RvR?

    It's a business, I assume that's driving these decisions for RvR rewards, quests, etc.
  • @uglydruids I wouldn't say zerg is fun, because when you pug in hero zerg all you hear are people complaining about how boring it is.

    However, zerg is the most convenient play style because you can usually find a group quickly, don't need to be in a top notch template and tbh you can be terrible at the game and still get your daily dose of RPs.
  • Shoke wrote: »
    tald wrote: »
    do any of this, but remove all forms of self/group porting. make ppl run or drown or cide on guards. or omg actually open a port.

    frustrating reading intel of hib grp camping a spot in pennine, only to get there and figure out they have actually soj ported out.

    create some lineal play where you can predict movements.

    I 100% agree with Tald there. Movement is a bit over the top right now. You can't really roam and run into people, because frankly nobody has to run around to reach objectives/fights. You just port/boat to everywhere you need to go.

    It's ridiculous that you can see spam of a group down by a relic keep, start heading EV to find fights and within 20-30 seconds they are jamming your fight.

    This is a function of EV being at the center of a effectively 7 zone wide RvR map.

    Smallmans have no way of finding one another because of the lack of connection between their likely objectives. There is no version of NNF that works with less ports. Just look at how the entire realm of Albion gets stuck in their realm on a daily basis. Their only decent way of getting to action without 10 minute transit times it to port to EV (assuming hurb/ren are not taken) so EV safe path + AMG gets camped hard for hours on end.

    The RvR map is simply built wrong to support anything other than catch-and-kill zerg action centered on EV extending outward to the 1st keeps in each realm. Less porting would only further this meta.

    Long since past are the days when a realm would take a coastal keep and use that as its base of operations for a night or up to 3 days. Part of this is due to the imbalance of population in zergs at different hours so only 1 realm is steamrolling and the others cannot defend effectively. And the second reason is the proliferation of speed 6, allowing zergs to move across long distances without having to reduce speed to accommodate groups without speed 6.

    There used to be a Lowest Common Denominator speed in each realm for zergs that prohibited them from crossing extremely long distances like Agramon over and over because it was too time consuming so they would take a coastal keep for easy port/reinforcements. This is gone with speed 6 horses.

    This cat cant be put back in the bag. Speed 6 horses are here to stay it seems and the RvR map isn't changing anytime soon. Sooooooo, the only course of action is to help smaller scale rvr like smallmans and duo's find each other. And the only way to do that is to make their objectives closer together through localized ports designed for smallmans that cannot be harnessed by zergs. I.E. allow groups to port though ruined town obelisks (or new ones built down at mazes) but you have to activate this port for 6 hours just like current solo ports so that zergs and full groups cannot realistically use these ports as a conduit.
  • @Rohan I get your point, but then you are creating even more parallel RvR, so people have even less chance to run into each other while roaming. Add a port and a "zone" and you'll have larger numbers camping it, just like the solo zones.

    Tbh cutting ev tower ports would be perfect for now. But then I remember bitching when they did cut the portsnto the towers. I guess it will never be perfect.
  • Kroko wrote: »
    Maybe dont increase the rps/kill, but change the quest for doppels that already exists. So you get a decent amount of rps for finishing the quest, but you can do the quest only 1x/day. This would cap the amount of rps you get each day.
    At the same time introduce more of those doppelgangers in locations away from the island, but reduce the rps/kill, or even remove it.
    But please dont introduce any doppels in solo zones. We dont need smallmen running there.

    doppels are already in the "solo-box" zones
  • edited February 17 PM
    @Shoke
    Removing EV tower and/or safe port has been tried. Twice. Once for almost a year. And all it did was slow action. The realm that was most damaged port-wise would give up and log. RvR activity dropped to all time lows and so those ports were re-implemented.

    No one wants to boat from hurb or relic town. Getting everyone on the same boat, boat afk’s, people lagging off boat, and just the general boredom of using boats sucks and everyone knows it after 14 years of NF.

    FG’s and smallman Swimming around ev do to oversized forces (zergs with the same pop as an opposing entire realm) blockading choke points to enter EV also sucks.

    The NF map is basically just awful. But reducing ports will only serve to stifle action. Even Zerg v Zerg will not benefit.

    The key to action is inviting it. Objectives of size with a quick ability to navigate. In NF that can only be accomplished by ports that bypass EV.

    Remove EV wholesale (the entire zone) and we can have a conversation about predictable routes.
    Post edited by Rohan on
  • edited February 18 PM
    [not needed]

    You keep talking about small man's. Only ones I see are the alb/Hib small mans rolling solos at Trell, Moy, and Folley.

    And there's plenty of action solo, just port around solo spots, kill doppels and look for fights. Hell did that this morning and got 98k in less than 2 hrs.

    [not needed]
    Post edited by Carol_Broadsword on
  • Look what I’m trying to get across is this for people who don’t want to Zerg who want to have fights with either another small man or another group or even solo your options are limited.
    You cannot go to agramon the only way you can negotiate it and avoid hero or irc groups is via the water or tag on the end of a couple of groups and hope you don’t die while crossing.
    Your other options then are the solo zones then back to the island and swim around that’s it you can’t fight the big zergs open field because you haven’t got the numbers you can kill stragglers and try kite them but highly risky your last option is to defend a keep and hope a few solid groups are in there.
    Now I’m not asking for portal locations I’m asking for a loop route that groups can follow that can provide random rp drops it could be 500 could be 1000.
    It’s not about pve get that out of your heads it’s about starting small pug rvr action and 8 man pug and solo.
    I’ll give you an example how it could work and work well the doppels were one example but the turkey legs and pins both were areas where this kinda idea worked plenty of action there.
    Even when buggans swapped around map there was action in different places.
    Another idea would be to make towers easier to take for the opposing realm if they are underpopulated and rps given to solos small men or groups for taking one its an idea just off the top of my head something that gets people around the map.
    We all know where the zergs are going to go hero follows a very predictable route irc will follow the Zergs and camp ev towers we need to use the map for others who don’t want to Zerg it’s big enough and wouldn’t be hard to implement

    I totally agree about the ev port situation it’s stupid with the dominance of hib what happens now is you take the tower a pbaoe group ports in and Ganks your ass or a mini hib Zerg ports in but I think that’s a different thread I’d like to keep topic to enhancing the rvr experience for new players casual players and solos . currently they are just given one alternative which is join a zerg.
    Some great ideas in this thread let’s hope some sort of product comes out of it.
  • Many years ago they had doppel routes on each realm and were worth 2k rps each and death low credit solo or grp, hell how you think openbook got rr12. They would get camped by groups, stealthers etc. Did have action risk/reward.
  • Rohan wrote: »
    This cat cant be put back in the bag. Speed 6 horses are here to stay it seems and the RvR map isn't changing anytime soon. Sooooooo, the only course of action is to help smaller scale rvr like smallmans and duo's find each other. And the only way to do that is to make their objectives closer together through localized ports designed for smallmans that cannot be harnessed by zergs. I.E. allow groups to port though ruined town obelisks (or new ones built down at mazes) but you have to activate this port for 6 hours just like current solo ports so that zergs and full groups cannot realistically use these ports as a conduit.

    Group porting in solo zones has just been removed. So this is gone. But im not sure how this should work anyway since full groups could use the ports too, and even zergs. So you could end up with full groups farming small men.
  • The limitation is needing the port active on both sides like you do now solo. Everyone in group needs the ports or you can’t port together.

    As a group grows, they are less and less likely to have already or be willing to go get all 3 ports for everyone.

    Being able to port as a group was in 6 months. And large groups/zergs couldn’t utilize it effectively because the barrier (of grabbing ports for everyone) was significant. The same would be true if the new system resembled the existing.

    There would be no strict barrier to the number of people, no pure restriction, just a time investment.
  • KatKat
    edited February 18 PM
    [not needed]

    You keep talking about small man's. Only ones I see are the alb/Hib small mans rolling solos at Trell, Moy, and Folley.

    And there's plenty of action solo, just port around solo spots, kill doppels and look for fights. Hell did that this morning and got 98k in less than 2 hrs.

    [not needed]

    During my timezone it is all three realms. What is the name of your toon that got 98k in two hours solo?
    Post edited by Kat on
    Stealth zergs are a cancer
  • 70% realm bonus 25% buff pot in the am pst not that hard to do kat
  • @Kat why you wanna know who my toon is?
  • You should spend less time in the 1v1 channel hob knobbing and you'd know :)
  • 70% bonus 25% pot = easy rps. Usually mid has bonus early am pst. Only thing is a couple smalls ie jennypali and hib 3 man go there every morning.
  • KatKat
    edited February 18 PM
    @Kat why you wanna know who my toon is?

    I would like to know what class can do 98k in two hours solo. Pretty impressive.
    Post edited by Kat on
    Stealth zergs are a cancer
  • Brut wrote: »
    Ok so I play most types of play in game I’m mainly known for my zerging but surprisingly most of what I run now is random small man and random pugs.
    What I have found is that there is no where to go.
    Most action is on the island dominated by zergs or irc.
    If it’s not the island it’s the central or relic keeps.
    I would like to see the return of the Dopples or something similar in many more locations maybe next to coastal keeps and mazes and solo zones but only for group credit and solo.
    Where each of group member or solo player gets 1000 rps.
    If a Zerg hits it only the Group that kills the Dopple gets the 1000 rps.

    1000 split between the group, okay.

    1000 for each group member and I'm going to start a decent smallman and just kill the dopple pve 8mans. I'm sure we will have to dodge IRC as well, as who can't resist some juicy 8x r8-12 albs autosticking.

    The issue I have with trying to make spots solo/small man friendly, is the more you make them attractive to smaller numbers, the more the people who aren't good at winning vs similar numbers will band together and come back in force. It's the nature of the beast. It's why small mans roll the solo areas. It's why FG's band together to chase down what few rps are on the other realm.

    Splitting pve mobs up by number in your group puts a natural cap on how many are in your raiding party. You want enough to be successful but not so many that its not worth your while. The sweet spot might be 1k per group, so you'd have most groups relegate to a 2-4 man. This type of thing is also something that the off hours people just grind out rps under, and that's i don't know, unhealthy.
  • KoeKoe
    edited February 19 PM
    Kat wrote: »
    @Kat why you wanna know who my toon is?

    I would like to know what class can do 98k in two hours solo. Pretty impressive.

    25% buff + 55% underpop bonus + 15% in template +5% guild + 15% realm bonus + 50% keep defense bonus + solo kill credit completion usually gets me pretty close as long as I get one on EV/solo zone/maizes, and the other 4 defending vs hero.
    Post edited by Koe on
  • Creaper wrote: »
    Removing Port to EV towers would help with toning down mobility of groups.

    This is basically alb and mid for 90% of the day, without beno/bled.
  • @Kat happy to know I've impressed u
  • Koe wrote: »
    Kat wrote: »
    @Kat why you wanna know who my toon is?

    I would like to know what class can do 98k in two hours solo. Pretty impressive.

    25% buff + 55% underpop bonus + 15% in template +5% guild + 15% realm bonus + 50% keep defense bonus + solo kill credit completion usually gets me pretty close as long as I get one on EV/solo zone/maizes, and the other 4 defending vs hero.

    jfc. I rarely do keep defense. Need to rethink that.
    Stealth zergs are a cancer
  • Kat wrote: »
    @Kat why you wanna know who my toon is?

    I would like to know what class can do 98k in two hours solo. Pretty impressive.

    ~50k/hour is not that uncommon when soloing. It definitely doesn't happen every time. I brought a rr3 zerk to NF and with 75% or w/e from buggane, 5% guild, and I think at the time mid had 40% RP bonus... I was getting 10k+ a kill

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