Why exactly are the catacombs sealed off?

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  • Getting more subscribers/players works by just catering to pvp folks ... right!

    DAoC has a heavy focus on PvP there is no doubt about that. Considering the game as a project I bet ya, building and scripting the PvE environment took more time than building the PvP environment. The ongoingin balancing for PvP also takes time - without a doubt - but so doese PvE bugfixing and mob balancing. This being said trying to run a successful busines plan by only catering to the need of one part of your prospect clients is ... short sighted, isn't it?
    Koe wrote: »
    People still get worked up over PVE? I'd much rather they focused on NF/Balance/housing/UI/getting more subscribers/players.

    Edit: oh, its albs.
  • Tyrantanic wrote: »
    That's not actually true @Keltorius. Nearly every expansion that came out was focused on PvE and the game started its long decline between ToA and Catacombs which is also the time WoW was released. The long grind of ToA waned on players and WoW pulled them to something fresh.

    The game is a mix between PvE and PvP, but in the founders own words, it was never meant to be competitive in the PvE world.

    This game was developed to be PvP focused since its inception because that was what Mythic was known for at the time.
    Can you elaborate on this? How was mythic known for PvP at the time. Based on what ppoints/facts/games did you make this statement. I am not challenging. I genuinely try to uderstand that rationale.
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    More PvE elements than PvP have been incorporated into the game over the years but the population declined anyways. It's been made quite clear that PvP, specifically RvR, is the primary reason this game still exists. You can grind or quest or explore in nearly any other MMO; however, you can only have large scale fights between players in DAoC pending CU. GW2 may be the only exception here but its WvW feature receives minimal development time.
    If only TESO would not be that laggy....
  • DAOC was made specifically because of the success they found with a previous 3 way pvp game of theirs called Darkness Falls.

    And, yes, I'm still curious about BS's plans and progress regarding Catacombs. This thread was full of people talking about how much work it would have been to just open up Catacombs content again for the few players that want to run around there for nostalgia, but never asking whether it's worth the resources to revamp it in the first place. Is this something people were asking for that I just never saw? Is a Catacombs revamp expected to bring back enough people that it's worth investing those resources into this instead of, say, RvR, or a way to incentivize people to do more of the already existing PvE?
  • @Querbeet https://countdowntoclassic.com/2019/10/09/episode-124-sliding-into-dms/

    My statements were based on a podcast that interviewed Mark Jacobs about DAoC. He also did one on Warhammer (episode 123).

    Mythic steered away from what made DAoC unique in the golden age of MMOs. While some of the PvE content looks cool, it's by far inferior to other MMOs today. DAoC is now an old MMO that survives by nostalgia and it's PvP gameplay.

    You're right about ESO having large scale PvP. Matt Firor, who works on ESO, is an old DAoC producer from the Mythic days. Hence, why some of the design choices for Cyrodiil mimic DAoC. I haven't had the time to delve too deep into ESO but definitely will continue to play it from time to time.

    Regarding Catacombs closer, Broadsword bit off more than they could chew. Right now, they're in damage control from some of the poorly received changes over the years. Hence, why they're focused on EC, which wasn't a thought at the time Catacombs was being revamped.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • I get your point. I also agree to it to a certain extend: I find it highly quistionable to close of content that people previously have paid for. That is, quite frankly, dubious business conduct. Whatever the reason may be they put out to the public. It certainly is not acceptable to say that it has been done to avoid potentional earning losses in the f2p model side of things.
    Drane wrote: »
    DAOC was made specifically because of the success they found with a previous 3 way pvp game of theirs called Darkness Falls.

    And, yes, I'm still curious about BS's plans and progress regarding Catacombs. This thread was full of people talking about how much work it would have been to just open up Catacombs content again for the few players that want to run around there for nostalgia, but never asking whether it's worth the resources to revamp it in the first place. Is this something people were asking for that I just never saw? Is a Catacombs revamp expected to bring back enough people that it's worth investing those resources into this instead of, say, RvR, or a way to incentivize people to do more of the already existing PvE?

    I agree, if the people wanting to play that content are not there in numbers there isn't a business case to spent time & effort. Closing paid for content is a big 'No' in my books hence in my view this conversation shouldn't take place :)

    Thank you for your contribution. I appreciate different view and angles.
  • Thank you. I will have a look into it. I am genuinely interested in this. I have made a 6 month commitment on 2 accounts and bought 2 max level toons, I'd like to stay informed to be able to make an educated decison come extension of the accounts. Appreciate your feedback!
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    @Querbeet https://countdowntoclassic.com/2019/10/09/episode-124-sliding-into-dms/

    My statements were based on a podcast that interviewed Mark Jacobs about DAoC. He also did one on Warhammer (episode 123).

    Mythic steered away from what made DAoC unique in the golden age of MMOs. While some of the PvE content looks cool, it's by far inferior to other MMOs today. DAoC is now an old MMO that survives by nostalgia and it's PvP gameplay.

    You're right about ESO having large scale PvP. Matt Firor, who works on ESO, is an old DAoC producer from the Mythic days. Hence, why some of the design choices for Cyrodiil mimic DAoC. I haven't had the time to delve too deep into ESO but definitely will continue to play it from time to time.

    Regarding Catacombs closer, Broadsword bit off more than they could chew. Right now, they're in damage control from some of the poorly received changes over the years. Hence, why they're focused on EC, which wasn't a thought at the time Catacombs was being revamped.

    Yeah, you're right, Matt's heritage and his influence to TESO is really obvious. Let's not get into an ESO in-depth conversation on a DAoC forum :)
  • Only complaint I have about Catacombs being cutoff is that I paid for that expansion when it came out, a lot of us did. lol
  • Querbeet wrote: »
    Getting more subscribers/players works by just catering to pvp folks ... right!

    DAoC has a heavy focus on PvP there is no doubt about that. Considering the game as a project I bet ya, building and scripting the PvE environment took more time than building the PvP environment. The ongoingin balancing for PvP also takes time - without a doubt - but so doese PvE bugfixing and mob balancing. This being said trying to run a successful busines plan by only catering to the need of one part of your prospect clients is ... short sighted, isn't it?
    Koe wrote: »
    People still get worked up over PVE? I'd much rather they focused on NF/Balance/housing/UI/getting more subscribers/players.

    Edit: oh, its albs.

    I'm afraid you have a bunch of players that have put in feedback over many many years to nerf PvE so players could get into RvR more quickly. That's what this game is all about now and those that loved the PvE side of DAoC have long gone.

    I agree with you Querbeet that many players are short sighted and don't see the whole picture and didn't see how PvE was important to this game.. Yes, I understand RvR is the end game and that's where some players really want to get too, but forgetting the PvE and just asking players who either new or returning to play awful content isn't exactly going to appeal players to want to stay.

    I've been on about this from the get go because I knew very well that EC wasn't going to do well if you don't show good first impressions. I will tell you now my first impression of the game is awful if I'm honest, these players wont have a clue what this game is about because it's heavily been pushed towards lots and lots of quests and as I remember the old town quest was annoying to find 30 different NPC's. I prefer the old leveling of DAoC and exploring all different area's in the game and that's what appealed to most, that is why it worked and I believe still works to this day.

    Right now, this game wont have success with the lack of communication and how long it takes for patches to be released. Yes u can go on about saying we can't do everything overnight but you've had 4-5 years and same things haven't been fixed. If you want to be serious and keep a subbing game, then you need to do things a little quicker and not take many years to fix things. In my honest opinion this game should be completely free as the population isn't good enough and that the standards aren't up to speed to online games these days.

    This is not bashing, this is just my honest opinion from a previous paying customer.
  • You gotta be the RIGHT paying customer for BS to listen. ;)
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • so will you be able to farm auralite in catacombs like before :)
  • BS's mistake with PVE was all the pve they put in over the last few years have included 'must have' items....gear creep, with clunky, unpopular quests (ow and curse). They have not figured out how to keep pve fun for the small percentage in this game that enjoy it vs forcing pure pvp players to grind out quests they don't want to do. It drove many pvp players away.
    Stealth zergs are a cancer

  • It's not that shocking. DF revamp was an already-existant dungeon. Otherworlds revamp was based on classic zones (just duplicated with ghosts and isht). Cursed was a revamp of Dragon and they integrated Catacombs, so they closed off old Catacombs.

    shrug

  • I'm excited for the catacombs to be reopened in their revamped form. More content please !
  • I've always been a PvE player... I RvR'd back in the day with my Eldy and had a blast, but, I was never really any good. Sure, I've gotten better over the years with my Ranger and such, but, I've always loved DAoC's PvE. But as stated before, when they made everything BP based, closed off Cata, and kinda forced RvR down the throats of everyone (and, as you know from the other posts, RvR is a touchy subject); it's just made this game so volatile. Stealth zergs - you're bad, Hero Zerg - you're bad, you play hib?? You're bad. Oh man, here comes IRC!! You're bad.

    People have talked about 'Old DAoC' more often than not... Would it be cool to get that again? I sure as hell think so... But will it truly help? I guess the only way to know is to give it a shot...
    Listen to the people - they will guide you..
  • ‘Old Daoc’ will never be a thing because it was a multitude of things, community, realm pride, helpful players in abundance etc.

    Daoc hayday for me was around year 2000 about a year before toa. Thousands online, action in all areas pve and rvr, the game catered to a massive audience. Even when toa and WoW appeared there were still a large player base for daoc but it was already showing it’s age.

    WoW showed how to do pve, questing, modern UI’s, guidance of new players etc. A lot left daoc for wow whilst people were still levelling zerker golden scarab vest in stygia on scarabs during specific hours for xp.

    I can only agree with solic, EC needs to be dropped and daoc become totally free and non crippled. Expand the mithril store for cosmetic items like eververse in D2. At this time or any other time in the future for doac, I believe another server is only going to dilute the player base and create more hostility and lack of faith in broadsword.
    Demmpsey - Animist
    Demmps - Vampiir
    Mimins - Bard
    Dempseas - Warden
    Dempsee - Hero
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