Classic Server and Ywain's Future

From what I've read of the mention of a late, first-quarter (2020) vote on a classic server ruleset, it seems that BS is stating they aren't 100% focused on the alternate server itself, insomuch as wanting it to be a starting ground for players intent on transferring their character(s) to Ywain.

Now, there's a particular alternate server that (before it introduced ToA and reinvented the original mass exodus) was doing quite well even (gulps) during North American, USA time. If BS really is going to bring back a classic + SI + housing server, is it possible they will focus on that server as a standalone from Ywain? I think it's only fair to say that returning players would be returning not for what Ywain has offered, but the classic + si + housing DAoC many of us have missed for years...decades, really, lol.

Here's the quote from the devs, if anyone missed it:

"While alternate servers may seem like a shift away from Ywain in the short term, in the long term they will be another boon to the game as a whole and to Ywain. New and returning players alike will have a chance to start fresh on the new servers, learn or re-learn the game, gain realm rank and eventually transfer over to Ywain with their established characters, which will continue to grow Ywain’s population over time. In addition to the momentum from Endless Conquest and this future momentum from these alternate servers..."

I would love to part of the mass invasion of players (that 1-3k we saw on that other server surely proves it's possible to really do better)....but not if it's just being used as a boot camp for a Ywain transfer.

Any opinions? Thank you.
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Comments

  • Honestly, BS should throw up a classic server with NF and QoL changes, and when everyone goes there to enjoy the game they should make changes to ywain behind the scenes that will make people actually want to play that server so when the merge comes people will stick with it.
  • edited January 23 PM
    I'm really curious what, if any, aspects of live they're considering for the classic server for the sake of QoL/balance.

    How would people feel about the classic/SI server having a live style Bountycrafting that offers all of the best available gear? Access to ROG loot through BP merchant consumables? Should you be able to obtain endgame gear purely through RvR and player crafting? Should SI dungeon currencies remain, or some other means of improved loot acquisition for people choosing to do the PvE content?

    What post-SI class balance and QoL changes, if any, would would people like to see on the classic server? Things like all auras/songs being active at once, additional race/class combinations, more recent style adjustments, slam duration nerf for non-heavy tanks, general class specific buffs like Thane improved spell range/speed and style procs, ect.
    Post edited by Drane on
  • I would love a fresh classic toa server
  • edited January 23 PM
    There's a couple main points I'd like to make.

    New servers don't last. They never do. Population starts out awesome, but real life happens and pop dwindles. That's not necessarily a bad thing, since the goal is to promote freshness instead of stagnation. Look at blizzard games with seasons (or Lol, or many good games really).

    Make a couple changes (add SI, toa, catacombs, mordred, whatever) for a season, reset progression, then let it go for 6mo to a year, and do it again with more changes for the next time. Rinse repeat. Meanwhile, transfer toons to ywain to keep your hard work/investment in time.

    Keeps the game fresh. Each season is fundamentally different. There's a reason to play the next season, because it will be a NEW experience.
    Each new season will reset the population counter. We've seen it again and again with other servers. People always come back to something new. Pop dies? Reset, good pop again!

    Now, additionally I would like them to also make it somewhat restrictive to promote making each season a completely brand new experience.
    1) Lock down realms. 1 realm per season. If you wanna switch realms, gotta delete toons and start over, sorry. Bring back realm pride and completely get rid of xrealmers. It's not permanent, it's only for a few months.
    If you wanna play with your buddies on a different realm, log into ywain. Or communicate beforehand what realm your going to this season.
    This game was based on consequences. There are major QOL improvements yes. But sometimes making the game too easy is detrimental. (realm timers, zerg pveing keeps, etc.). If one realm becomes a powerhouse, it's up to the other two realms to nonstop hammer the other one for a month or 6. If that's not enough and pop dies? Just reset server lol. Instant more population.
    2) lock it down to paying subs only. This actually does two things, helps keep gold sellers out (short duration servers, why pay money to farm), and gives BS a direct financial boost. Free players have ywain. People will PAY to have an even playing field in rvr.

    I would be highly impressed if 30% of the server can make rr10 in just a few months (depending on rules, heck one season could have 50x rps).
    Those that can make rr10 quickly will have legit earned name recognition. They will have accomplishment and pride (and keep paying for next season) and people will have a goal to strive towards (and keep paying for next season).

    Season ending could correspond with some holiday periods and bring a big boost of players back to ywain for a couple months while the new season is getting prepared. This also will keep the game fresh for all.


    Also, constant new servers will cater to quite a few playstyles.
    Hardcores will get the recognition they want by achieving high rr quickly.
    Filthy casuals will actually get the comraderie that's currently missing from lack of xp groups.
    Raiders and leaders will actually have reasons to raid/lead. People legit need the gear, can't just buy everything.
    Crafters will be able to get business for the work they put into crafting. Everyone and their mom won't have every single craft legendary on an alt.
    Farmers will have something to collect.
    OCD gamers gotta collect em all, and pay to do it, see below...


    Side notes, make a leader board for more than just rps. Trophies in a personal/guild house. Crafting skills. Level 50 toons on the account. Make 50 different leader boards for any and all playstyles.
    Total rps healed, deathblows, solo kills in rvr (both by toon, and account based). Legion kills. Dragon kills. If there's a title, make a leaderboard. Heck, make a leaderboard for total titles. Give a free month to every person who won the hard leaderboards at season end. Give a season pass to whoever got the most number 1 spots on the leaderboard. Give a free mansion at the very front of housing for the top guilds next season, etc.
    Make statues for every single leaderboard in a new hall of heroes in housing or something. Reset each season (statues are of who won last season). This keeps game clutter down, super easy to just change names each time. Or instead, give them a statue they can put in their yard in housing. Maybe on ywain also? (but temporary)

    Get that competition flowing and make everyone have goals to strive towards each season, and you'll get people hooked.

    If you focus on a task for a few months to be the best, it'll keep you playing. If you try to keep the top 5 spot in anything for 10 years, your going to burn out. Next season, switch to a different goal or two.

    Personally, I'd love to be the person with the most completed Labby boss encounters, or teleports on alts, who cares. Number 1!!!

    Just a few thoughts I guess...
    If anyone thinks any of these ideas are somewhat good, plz tag Carol or John or someone. I won't complain, I just want a Reason to give them my $$
    Post edited by AlaskaMike on
  • AlaskaMike wrote: »
    There's a couple main points I'd like to make.

    New servers don't last. They never do. Population starts out awesome, but real life happens and pop dwindles. That's not necessarily a bad thing, since the goal is to promote freshness instead of stagnation. Look at blizzard games with seasons (or Lol, or many good games really).

    Make a couple changes (add SI, toa, catacombs, mordred, whatever) for a season, reset progression, then let it go for 6mo to a year, and do it again with more changes for the next time. Rinse repeat. Meanwhile, transfer toons to ywain to keep your hard work/investment in time.

    Keeps the game fresh. Each season is fundamentally different. There's a reason to play the next season, because it will be a NEW experience.
    Each new season will reset the population counter. We've seen it again and again with other servers. People always come back to something new. Pop dies? Reset, good pop again!

    Now, additionally I would like them to also make it somewhat restrictive to promote making each season a completely brand new experience.
    1) Lock down realms. 1 realm per season. If you wanna switch realms, gotta delete toons and start over, sorry. Bring back realm pride and completely get rid of xrealmers. It's not permanent, it's only for a few months.
    If you wanna play with your buddies on a different realm, log into ywain. Or communicate beforehand what realm your going to this season.
    This game was based on consequences. There are major QOL improvements yes. But sometimes making the game too easy is detrimental. (realm timers, zerg pveing keeps, etc.). If one realm becomes a powerhouse, it's up to the other two realms to nonstop hammer the other one for a month or 6. If that's not enough and pop dies? Just reset server lol. Instant more population.
    2) lock it down to paying subs only. This actually does two things, helps keep gold sellers out (short duration servers, why pay money to farm), and gives BS a direct financial boost. Free players have ywain. People will PAY to have an even playing field in rvr.

    I would be highly impressed if 30% of the server can make rr10 in just a few months (depending on rules, heck one season could have 50x rps).
    Those that can make rr10 quickly will have legit earned name recognition. They will have accomplishment and pride (and keep paying for next season) and people will have a goal to strive towards (and keep paying for next season).

    Season ending could correspond with some holiday periods and bring a big boost of players back to ywain for a couple months while the new season is getting prepared. This also will keep the game fresh for all.


    Also, constant new servers will cater to quite a few playstyles.
    Hardcores will get the recognition they want by achieving high rr quickly.
    Filthy casuals will actually get the comraderie that's currently missing from lack of xp groups.
    Raiders and leaders will actually have reasons to raid/lead. People legit need the gear, can't just buy everything.
    Crafters will be able to get business for the work they put into crafting. Everyone and their mom won't have every single craft legendary on an alt.
    Farmers will have something to collect.
    OCD gamers gotta collect em all, and pay to do it, see below...


    Side notes, make a leader board for more than just rps. Trophies in a personal/guild house. Crafting skills. Level 50 toons on the account. Make 50 different leader boards for any and all playstyles.
    Total rps healed, deathblows, solo kills in rvr (both by toon, and account based). Legion kills. Dragon kills. If there's a title, make a leaderboard. Heck, make a leaderboard for total titles. Give a free month to every person who won the hard leaderboards at season end. Give a season pass to whoever got the most number 1 spots on the leaderboard. Give a free mansion at the very front of housing for the top guilds next season, etc.
    Make statues for every single leaderboard in a new hall of heroes in housing or something. Reset each season (statues are of who won last season). This keeps game clutter down, super easy to just change names each time. Or instead, give them a statue they can put in their yard in housing. Maybe on ywain also? (but temporary)

    Get that competition flowing and make everyone have goals to strive towards each season, and you'll get people hooked.

    If you focus on a task for a few months to be the best, it'll keep you playing. If you try to keep the top 5 spot in anything for 10 years, your going to burn out. Next season, switch to a different goal or two.

    Personally, I'd love to be the person with the most completed Labby boss encounters, or teleports on alts, who cares. Number 1!!!

    Just a few thoughts I guess...
    If anyone thinks any of these ideas are somewhat good, plz tag Carol or John or someone. I won't complain, I just want a Reason to give them my $$

    @John_Broadsword @Carol_Broadsword

    100% yes
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • AlaskaMike wrote: »
    1) Lock down realms. 1 realm per season. If you wanna switch realms, gotta delete toons and start over, sorry.

    YES!
    AlaskaMike wrote: »
    2) lock it down to paying subs only. This actually does two things, helps keep gold sellers out (short duration servers, why pay money to farm), and gives BS a direct financial boost.

    NO!!! Very much feel that one of the reasons EC doesn't have more returning players is that its a very difficult thing to start over on the slow grind when everyone is already R10+ Coming back on an EC account on a fresh server makes a very attractive option. The type of person that would jump on that in a heartbeat is on a different thing right now, and those people would check it out and create action, but likely only if it were F2P. Some people are not playing at all (Some people have RL and don't want to justify the $ for several things, but it they got back into it they would absolutely change to paid if it became their hobby). That second type of person would also start out free, but would definitely see the advantages and sub once they started to enjoy playing again. I would imagine this second type encompases a whole lot of ex-players. Action and community are what they would need.

  • edited January 24 PM
    @Koe
    One of the other main concerns regarding EC is lack of classes or lots of restrictions.

    Locking down the new servers to paying subs allows for MUuuuuuUuUUuuUuUuCh looser restrictions on ywain. This will greatly boost free players, probably enough to meet or exceed the amount of players switching to the new server.

    You also need a way to make sure that Ywain doesn't just die population wise. Very loosely restricted EC accounts allows for this (and makes veterans happy they have people to kill).

    But if you open new servers which take away a lot of payers, and EVERY SINGLE free player (why would you willingly have restrictions AND fight rr10's?), ywain dies. That's unfair to the subscribers who want to stay on ywain.

    Gotta lock it down to subscribers, I don't see a valid business sense otherwise. I just hope to God they lock the realms.

    I also hope they keep dyes expensive or maybe even hard to get (only drop off boss mobs ect.) along with MTX. Wanna look purple? Pay or raid lol.
    Post edited by AlaskaMike on
  • Well to date we have said any alt server would be sub only.
    DAoC Community Lead
    Broadsword Online Games
  • edited January 24 PM
    I think transferring chars from new server to yawain would be pointless for most people (I have at least 1lvl 50, and 1 lvl 39, of every class (I don't need more!!)). I think a option to move rps on the new server char to a yawain char at the end of the season would be nice. Or simply rp bonus pots based on the rps your new server chars have at the end of the season. Of course some might like the new char so I would give players a choice (then your actions on the new server help grow your permit chars on yawain).
    Post edited by rocketait on
  • AlaskaMike wrote: »
    There's a couple main points I'd like to make.

    New servers don't last. They never do. Population starts out awesome, but real life happens and pop dwindles. That's not necessarily a bad thing, since the goal is to promote freshness instead of stagnation. Look at blizzard games with seasons (or Lol, or many good games really).

    Make a couple changes (add SI, toa, catacombs, mordred, whatever) for a season, reset progression, then let it go for 6mo to a year, and do it again with more changes for the next time. Rinse repeat. Meanwhile, transfer toons to ywain to keep your hard work/investment in time.

    Keeps the game fresh. Each season is fundamentally different. There's a reason to play the next season, because it will be a NEW experience.
    Each new season will reset the population counter. We've seen it again and again with other servers. People always come back to something new. Pop dies? Reset, good pop again!

    Now, additionally I would like them to also make it somewhat restrictive to promote making each season a completely brand new experience.
    1) Lock down realms. 1 realm per season. If you wanna switch realms, gotta delete toons and start over, sorry. Bring back realm pride and completely get rid of xrealmers. It's not permanent, it's only for a few months.
    If you wanna play with your buddies on a different realm, log into ywain. Or communicate beforehand what realm your going to this season.
    This game was based on consequences. There are major QOL improvements yes. But sometimes making the game too easy is detrimental. (realm timers, zerg pveing keeps, etc.). If one realm becomes a powerhouse, it's up to the other two realms to nonstop hammer the other one for a month or 6. If that's not enough and pop dies? Just reset server lol. Instant more population.
    2) lock it down to paying subs only. This actually does two things, helps keep gold sellers out (short duration servers, why pay money to farm), and gives BS a direct financial boost. Free players have ywain. People will PAY to have an even playing field in rvr.

    I would be highly impressed if 30% of the server can make rr10 in just a few months (depending on rules, heck one season could have 50x rps).
    Those that can make rr10 quickly will have legit earned name recognition. They will have accomplishment and pride (and keep paying for next season) and people will have a goal to strive towards (and keep paying for next season).

    Season ending could correspond with some holiday periods and bring a big boost of players back to ywain for a couple months while the new season is getting prepared. This also will keep the game fresh for all.


    Also, constant new servers will cater to quite a few playstyles.
    Hardcores will get the recognition they want by achieving high rr quickly.
    Filthy casuals will actually get the comraderie that's currently missing from lack of xp groups.
    Raiders and leaders will actually have reasons to raid/lead. People legit need the gear, can't just buy everything.
    Crafters will be able to get business for the work they put into crafting. Everyone and their mom won't have every single craft legendary on an alt.
    Farmers will have something to collect.
    OCD gamers gotta collect em all, and pay to do it, see below...


    Side notes, make a leader board for more than just rps. Trophies in a personal/guild house. Crafting skills. Level 50 toons on the account. Make 50 different leader boards for any and all playstyles.
    Total rps healed, deathblows, solo kills in rvr (both by toon, and account based). Legion kills. Dragon kills. If there's a title, make a leaderboard. Heck, make a leaderboard for total titles. Give a free month to every person who won the hard leaderboards at season end. Give a season pass to whoever got the most number 1 spots on the leaderboard. Give a free mansion at the very front of housing for the top guilds next season, etc.
    Make statues for every single leaderboard in a new hall of heroes in housing or something. Reset each season (statues are of who won last season). This keeps game clutter down, super easy to just change names each time. Or instead, give them a statue they can put in their yard in housing. Maybe on ywain also? (but temporary)

    Get that competition flowing and make everyone have goals to strive towards each season, and you'll get people hooked.

    If you focus on a task for a few months to be the best, it'll keep you playing. If you try to keep the top 5 spot in anything for 10 years, your going to burn out. Next season, switch to a different goal or two.

    Personally, I'd love to be the person with the most completed Labby boss encounters, or teleports on alts, who cares. Number 1!!!

    Just a few thoughts I guess...
    If anyone thinks any of these ideas are somewhat good, plz tag Carol or John or someone. I won't complain, I just want a Reason to give them my $$

    I agree with majority of this, this is something that I would invest my time into and would be great fun. Would much rather see this then a classic server. Never understood people who would want to play something that was designed 10 years ago.

    @John_Broadsword, make it happen, captain.
  • AlaskaMike wrote: »
    Keeps the game fresh. Each season is fundamentally different. There's a reason to play the next season, because it will be a NEW experience.
    ...
    Get that competition flowing and make everyone have goals to strive towards each season, and you'll get people hooked.

    agree 100% with what is written in the post of ...., but in particular with the phrases / quote.

    for me, returning player, at the moment it is impossible or very difficult to make decent runs in the Frontiers against 10L … or even just in Molvik, against capped pg

    a new server that does not oblige artifacts and ML allows direct access to RvR at 50 against pg with only few RRs ... and keeps the interest alive and competitive

    iMHO
  • AlaskaMike wrote: »
    @Koe
    One of the other main concerns regarding EC is lack of classes or lots of restrictions.

    Locking down the new servers to paying subs allows for MUuuuuuUuUUuuUuUuCh looser restrictions on ywain. This will greatly boost free players, probably enough to meet or exceed the amount of players switching to the new server.

    You also need a way to make sure that Ywain doesn't just die population wise. Very loosely restricted EC accounts allows for this (and makes veterans happy they have people to kill).

    But if you open new servers which take away a lot of payers, and EVERY SINGLE free player (why would you willingly have restrictions AND fight rr10's?), ywain dies. That's unfair to the subscribers who want to stay on ywain.

    Gotta lock it down to subscribers, I don't see a valid business sense otherwise. I just hope to God they lock the realms.

    I also hope they keep dyes expensive or maybe even hard to get (only drop off boss mobs ect.) along with MTX. Wanna look purple? Pay or raid lol.

    @AlaskaMike That makes sense

  • Great discussion here all, and please carry it on :)

  • To be honest, I don't care what server it becomes. Whether a classic server with tweaks or a PvP server. The main thing is that a NEW SERVER is coming! Ywain is the worst server there is. I alone would be willing to run at least 3 accounts per month with a new server, in addition I have many friends who would do the same. Broadsword would finally become liquid again. I would be happy to have a progression server, starting at 1.32! Later then ToA with ML's and Artifactraids etc. :-) I used to think ToA was terrible .... today I think it was the best extension .... it is unbelievable how many things you could do in ToA ... .. and there were so beautiful regions to explore :-)
  • edited January 24 PM
    A complete overhaul of the RA system will be required.

    The beauty of old RAs was the timer management
    Most of the high value RAs were on 30 minites timers, part of it was because of the portal ceremony (neck check!) but it also leads to less RA dumping.

    The negative of old RAs was how OP some were, while others were just bad.

    R12 zergs are bad for the game, when they chase around smaller numbers dumping every cooldown known to man.
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • @AlaskaMike
    Reset progression means all chars deleted? (if not transfered to Ywain)
  • edited January 25 PM
    The biggest problem on YWAIN is that when one realm is dominating RvR, it shuts down all other aspects of that realms ability to RvR. IE when hero zerg is rolling cutting all ports and taking keeps, any solo/duo/small mans now have to boat from relic town to make it back to the action. Outer keeps are effectively useless to Hero because he can take a keep without cutting port thanks to population imbalances. This forces an entire realm to play one play style: zerg keep defense. While this is great when we had a reason to defend something, now there is no reason to defend thanks to dead realm pride and relics are too easy for hero to take right now.

    So let's learn from this. Remove the old/broken relic system and update the bonuses your realm gets from owning more keeps. New server doesn't need relics, or you risk one realm dominating the other two for the life of the season, and we want to promote BALANCE not IMBALANCE. . Remove the broken keep RP reward system as well, it promotes 8mans jumping on the zerg train and consolidating action rather than spreading it around a little bit .If you're going to lock people down to one realm, and one realm is set up to dominate that season (we all know certain patches certain realms were stronger, some groups will take advantage of this, ontop of relic stacking), people will just quit or go farm EC players on Ywain.

    Provide more incentives for groups 4 or less. This is probably one of the more important points for the overall life of DAoC. A lot of people can agree the general playerbase ATM is pretty, well, bad. People consider assisting high level play..... The best way for people to learn their classes and abilities is small manning. You need to use the full strength of your class to be competitive in a small man, unlike zerging where you're mistakes can largely be covered by other players around you. 8man elitism isn't a good thing to promote either.

    IMO I would use the Solo zone strategy here:

    Allow groups 4 or less to click an obelisk in each realms maze. Obelisk gives 25-50% RP bonus, and allows you to port to the other realms mazes. Mazes would become a hub for small man action, and if 8mans try to come gank them they can run to the obelisk and port out, or all the smallies turn. Return the buggane's obelisk to the middle of the island for 8mans giving them an extra 15% RP's. Also if you're in a BATTLEGROUP you should not reap the rewards from buggane, no RP bonus for you. If you want to play with larger numbers, which a lot of times means you're going to zerg down any smaller force you find, THAT is your RP bonus from zerging. You can't give huge RP bonuses to zergers, or else you have the product we have today: high RR brain-dead zergs.

    Also on this progression server I would cap the RR at 5-8.. If somebody decides to sub in month 4 of 6 during progression server and nobody is leveling anymore so they have to do it all solo, they might not keep subbing. Then they have to wait 180 days................................



    Edit: One last note, want to bring back more old subs? When we launch the progression server bring back the 14 day free-trial for previous subs. It will give your player base that decided to leave JUST over Broadsword, a chance to come back in and see your new shiny product before deciding to go EC or sub.

    Post edited by Dale_Perf on
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • I’d like a Classic/SI server again but with better leveling than the old days. No one wants to take months to hit 50 again. Make some changes to crafting so items would have different types of bonuses to them and make it worthwhile again.

    No ToA!! It led to the first exodus and would likely do the same again with it’s “haves” versus “not have” dilemma.

    But, to each their own I suppose.
  • KoeKoe
    edited January 25 PM
    Dale_Perf wrote: »
    So let's learn from this. Remove the old/broken relic system and update the bonuses your realm gets from owning more keeps. New server doesn't need relics, or you risk one realm dominating the other two for the life of the season, and we want to promote BALANCE not IMBALANCE. .
    I guess I see it the other way. Protecting relics is part of what made realm pride important to begin with. Would I really respond to a 3am text to defend a relic? Not on this server. Heck, I probably wouldn't give my alliance my #, but on a new server with actual realm pride? hm. Possibly. (Wife might start to wonder about me but she already does). Protecting just keeps and territory only mean so much. It doesn't really hurt. Personally I'd like to see them start off with relics- and you have to choose just 1 realm, but have some amount of realm cap or something so not the entire hib zerg can go over there and just do the same thing. Then, if there's relic disparity Broadsword can always change things up.
    Post edited by Koe on
  • KoeKoe
    edited January 25 PM
    Dale_Perf wrote: »
    Edit: One last note, want to bring back more old subs? When we launch the progression server bring back the 14 day free-trial for previous subs. It will give your player base that decided to leave JUST over Broadsword, a chance to come back in and see your new shiny product before deciding to go EC or sub.

    Nice idea. The only possible issue with this is people hogging lowbie xp spots with no intention of staying on the server. Perhaps if you want to 14 day trial you couldn't log in for the first 3 days on the server. That would also possibly force these people to the underpop realm if other two realms were "full".

    Post edited by Koe on
  • edited January 25 PM
    Things I would like to see based on my experiences playing here and elsewhere:

    1.) Add a craft queue system. The current craft system is easy but suffers due to lack of quality of life. In addition to this, I would love tradeskills to be shared across ALL characters on one realm. This is strictly QoL and should be placed on Ywain as well.

    2.) Expand the New User Journey system to 50. The NUJ system is great at streamlining leveling via quests up to 35 but is lacking at higher levels. Expanding on the NUJ quest line to visit other towns / areas across the mainlands up to 50 would scratch a nostalgia itch that some may have while not forcing players into Battlegrounds to finish their leveling. I do think the kill quests in the Battlegrounds are great and should be on the new server as well for those who want to XP faster but with the added risk of getting killed by other players. I also think providing an XP bonus for groups that want to level in dungeons should be considered and include a "smart drop" system where only items drop that are tailored for the group composition. This would be great for the classic grinding folks.

    3.) Revamp the RvR task system. The daily RP quests were a huge success for earning RPs quickly but encouraged players to swap characters frequently since there was no incentive to keep playing on one. Additionally, the personal and group missions that were re-introduced after the last patch do not provide sufficient RP rewards to be worthwhile. My suggestion is to introduce a RvR task system that rewards players RPs for participating in the realm war. Details regarding what is considered participating can be fleshed out later but there is a server that uses this system quite well. The RvR task system would grant minimal RPs for players that struggle to be effective in RvR but enough such that they can still progress their characters albeit slowly. Add a tiered kill task system that grants RPs upon completion of each tier that exponentially increases the kill count and now you have a reason to keep playing on one character as opposed to swapping once you've completed your daily.

    The rest of my suggestions are dependent on what ruleset the new server uses. I will assume, until otherwise noted, that it will start with classic + SI + housing.

    4.) Remove bountycraft and add end-game items to a bounty merchant. I think bountycraft is great on paper but implemented poorly. There is no reason to add a complicated crafting system when purchasing items directly from an NPC with bounty points (BPs) can accomplish the same goal. Allow BPs to be obtained through RvR and PvE much like it is on Ywain but with more PvE options (i.e. epic dungeon raids). This would provide various options for obtaining end-game gear without forcing players to PvE. Make epic armor and possibly jewelry available for free at 50 but tune it down such that all stats and resists are slightly under cap (i.e. 60/75 stats, 20/26 resists, 7/11 +skill, etc). Remove the BP cap and share BPs across all characters on one realm. Regarding templates and items, I would love to see an improved ROG system so players can make their templates unique if they wish. Preventing must have items in every slot would open up a lot of customization.

    5.) Impose classic ruleset buff restrictions AND include supremacy potions. Buffs are probably one of the worst design choices DAoC has as it doubles your characters strength easily and, back in the day, only benefited players who were willing to pay for an extra account. I would like to remove the need for a buff bot while still having the benefits of buffing available and I think including supremacy potions is the way to go. As a result of having full buffs readily available, I would also include buff shearing to compensate. This would allow players to solo without gimping themselves and give group based fights an added dynamic instead of "just kill the buffer/healer". Self buffing classes would still benefit from being immune to shears for their respective buffs.

    6.) Use patch 1.9X era for class balance. I absolutely loved the Dragonslayer era of DAoC. Classes were pretty well balanced as one could expect without being mirrored. Templates weren't difficult to put together nor were there any OP items. The new styles introduced then were great. I personally dislike the old styles. However, style procs would have to be in tune with the patch level (current blizzard blade and roundhouse delves would be OP in a classic setting). Only song classes had speed 6! While I enjoy the convenience of mounts and having speed 6 on additional classes, I personally think speed 6 should only be available for Skalds, Bards, and Minstrels. Keep Speed of the Hunt for everyone else with a slightly smaller delve than 176% (i.e. 170%).

    Poll your community on which frontier zone to use. OF is nostalgic but plagued with terrible keep design and choke points. NF is over all very accommodating but includes water fights which some players may not want (hint: maybe instant drown players who dive and provide everyone with 100% water speed). Bring back old bridges with ladders! Introduce a fair fight command for XvX (limited up to 8v8 and down to 1v1). Provide incentives for different playstyles to congregate in certain areas. For example, incentivize 8v8 fights on EV or old Agramon, small v small around the mazes, and 1v1s at the original solo towns. Players who want unstructured fights can roam around the rest of the frontiers and zergs can focus on keeps or relics if available. Poll your community on which archery system to use and which envenom system to use. Both systems have their pros and cons but I feel the stealther community should weigh in on this before it's decided. Use expansion zones for developer events! Imagine having huge zerg fights in Atlantis and tournaments in Labyrinth or Catacombs.

    A new server is going to require work to be worth a subscription. Don't just copy what has been done before. Offer something that no other place can. Except disappointment. We've had enough of that on Ywain.

    Edit: +1 to an RA overhaul. It would have to be catered to the setting of the server but RAs as they are on Ywain should not be copied over to the new server.
    Post edited by Tyrantanic on
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • edited January 25 PM
    Assuming we do see the classic server retain the idea of purchasing top tier gear through BP or some other currency (whether it's bountycrafting, purchasing it straight from a merchant, or whatever other method is gone with), I'd like to see the concept of the weekly Atlantis BP quests expanded on. A large, rotating set of weekly/monthly quests could be a great way of getting people to go out and do content that's mostly ignored other than people doing it for nostalgia. For what it's worth, this would also be a welcome change on Ywain.

    edit:
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    4.) Remove bountycraft and add end-game items to a bounty merchant. I think bountycraft is great on paper but implemented poorly. There is no reason to add a complicated crafting system when purchasing items directly from an NPC with bounty points (BPs) can accomplish the same goal.

    One point I'll make is that the crafting menu is a much cleaner way of organizing different categories of loot, rather than dumping it all on a single merchant or having 10+ merchants all standing in a row.

    Otherwise I pretty much agree with your post, although I'm not sure I fully agree with the full NUJ experience being ported over. I'm fine with the BG quests being kept, but PvE wise I'd rather see mob killing see a large buff rather than static quests being the primary method of leveling. Also, any form of "smart drop" system would have to have a way of turning it off so you can farm for alts.
    Post edited by Drane on
  • Water fights are the best part of NF
    Stealth zergs are a cancer
  • ToA killed DaoC population for a very good reason, so if you repeat ToA, then you repeat the exodus. I've been saying that quiet a few times already, and it is nice to read that there is proof from alternative servers.

    The important point is to understand why ToA was a bad expansion to not make that mistake in different forms again somewhere else. In short: There are basically two kinds of players in DaoC, those who want to PvE and those who want to PvP. For those who like to PvE ToA was a great expansion, because it offered a lot of it, those who love to PvP hated it, because it forced them to PvE a lot just to be able to PvP again. Now PvE is only fun until you done it a few times and things become repetitive, at that point it becomes a grind. Grinding to be able to PvP is a big nope and a game killer in literally every MMO out there. So the lesson learned from ToA was to keep PvE progression and PvP progression separate. The Champion abilities were a direct result of that lesson learned: nice for PvE, not required in PvP. So if you bring any classic server, then it can only be pre-ToA or it will fail.

    The other big question is: what will be the theme of a short-lived, alternate rule-set server? You could make a "race to alternate world first" PvE server probably, where players need to kill certain bosses as fast as possible, rewarding points and having kind of an official ranking. Other than that I see only a pure PvP focused server, where everything that is not relevant for PvP is cut off. That would be kind of a SI-server with current balancing, no ToA, no Champion levels, no otherworldly campaign, but the current patch state otherwise.
  • @Tyrantanic all great ideas! I really wonder where you could find all of these things ;)
  • it is funny how the mass exodus from toa daoc went to mass raiding on warcraft :)
  • Toa, curse, otherworldly, frozen, all have one thing in common and I hate all of them for it. It added "required gear" and forced groups of people out of RvR at a time. Most of these players already pve and got templates and where now having fun RvRing. Why would they want to go back to a sub par pve system when there are other games that do it better? Also with the drop there was low action in NF and when you did find someone you got rolled because they had the new stuff (fighting with no zef or phase shift, bodyguard), it just felt bad so people quit. Now at least with rvr can get you "required gear" so it is it's not that bad but is it needed? (I think toa before the EC patch was fine with glass or bp purchasing (though it could be streamlined for new players)), but now it feels like templates are kind of limited (you need some of these actives or set bonuses, loyalty clocks that there is some templates that could be considered hands down the best (others are just easier to get)) one of the draws to dark age over other MMOs is that there is no best gear (the hard caps and use timers assist with this), it's just can you get a combo of gear that hits the caps and have the uses/procs you want for your play style. This use to be able to be done in many ways but the mithical cap increase and set bonus (there goes my most of my armor options), loyalty clock for some classes (others feel like a bad joke) leave you with a few accessories to pick out (you can do without the set bonus but again some classes it's such a large bonus).

    Fix gear creap on new server and don't "require" end game pve and I think it will do well (oh and pick a ok balance patch and balance it from statistically and user feedback as the player base has changed from when the patch was released).
  • Kinda why I was asking to change the crafting, make crafters meaningful again. Outside of legendary weapons and SCed boots(for those to fill out templates) not much it bought. I could be wrong but have noticed it. We have some bonuses to crafted gear now, maybe retain that on new server.
  • Oh, on new server, could we have Thidranki, Caledonia, and maybe a third battleground again?
  • KoeKoe
    edited January 25 PM
    IMO BG's shouldn't be on the new server. You already can't use ML abilities/R5's class cloaks/high level items/charges, etc. What's the progression in leveling to thid on a new server? Seems sorta meaningless. Giving everyone a fresh start isn't an issue in the BG's where you can cap in a few days. There's a cost/benefit to spreading the population out further vs having what would essentially be a duplicative battleground. Battleground on classic vs battleground on live, not a lot different, right?
    Post edited by Koe on
  • @Kroko
    Don't know how they're going to handle it. But if the recent work on the account classic server search stuff is anything to go by. They'll probably just have each new server name be different, and after it's turned off, you can just look up your account, see what toons are there, and do the slash command to xfer over to ywain.
    Doesn't have to be auto xfer to ywain, but easy enough to do.
  • edited January 25 PM
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    1.) Add a craft queue system. The current craft system is easy but suffers due to lack of quality of life. In addition to this, I would love tradeskills to be shared across ALL characters on one realm. This is strictly QoL and should be placed on Ywain as well.
    Yes! Makes crafting much more comfortable.
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    5.) AND include supremacy potions.
    Yes!

    I would find it nice to have horses too, with max speed.

    Make votes about things where it makes sense. For example OF/NF. Maybe let people try OF for some weeks, then NF for some weeks, and then let them vote. (if this is not too much work)

    I would keep the relic system. Its in game since beginning. And under normal circumstances, its quite balanced.
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • I'm really only interested in *one* fresh start. A fresh start is needed to undo most of the damage done by Curse, OW, RP inflation, access to all realms, etc. These things cannot be fixed on Ywain (the damage is done). I have no intention of ever playing Ywain again, so from my point of view, the ideal solution (in theory!) would be for a new server to *replace* Ywain. I know there is zero support for this from Ywain players, but it would solve the problem of splitting the population. I'm not suggesting people should be forced to start over, I'm just kinda surprised that noone seems willing to even consider it... something to think about :)

    Inevitably, we will see a series of these alternate ruleset servers, not because it's necessarily a good idea to keep starting over, but because there will be a lot of subscribers on the alt servers, and it is my prediction that very few players will transfer to Ywain. Closing an alt server will result in a big loss of subscribers, and Broadsword will feel they have no choice but to quickly replace one alt server with another alt server.
  • I suppose I'll add my two cents worth.

    DAoC was my first real MMORPG. I played it alongside my brother way back in 2002 (and we still play to this day). It feels to me that the sense of camaraderie has gone downhill and Realm Pride is nearly non-existent. To be honest, I miss the old DAoC... Dragon raids, DF raids, hell, even a Galla Raid (Yeah, i played Hib for most of my DAoC life). As of right now, the game, whilst fun, just seems like a Bounty Point run to buy the latest and greatest gear as quickly as possible then go hop on the zerg train to make those arpees.

    With that said, I feel both sides of this conversation. Sure, a 'Classic' server would be pretty amazing - bring this game back to its roots, so-to-speak. On the other hand, the whole 'Seasons' idea is pretty nifty as well... I personally would prefer a Classic server, but, you all have some pretty amazing points.
    Listen to the people - they will guide you..
  • I want a new server but the problem is going to be keeping ywain population up. In the current format of EC i cant see Ywain doing well. EC needs changes to bring players back and that is not having any restrictions to classes. The only restrictions should be you cant own a house, only can have 1-2 characters and realm rank.

    Paid subs should get a discount for mithril shops and access to everything.
  • I want a new server but the problem is going to be keeping ywain population up. In the current format of EC i cant see Ywain doing well. EC needs changes to bring players back and that is not having any restrictions to classes. The only restrictions should be you cant own a house, only can have 1-2 characters and realm rank.

    Paid subs should get a discount for mithril shops and access to everything.

    +1
    Listen to the people - they will guide you..
  • I would like the "seasons" to be even a couple years old if possible, but not at the expense of the experience. Once population starts dropping, scrap it and make a new "season".

    Doesn't have to be a strict 6 months each or whatever. If a rule set just flops, replace it after 2 months, who cares. Just have a measurable metric of player count (daily/weekly/whatever) and reset when that is reached.
  • 'Rescuing' this game, so-to-speak is not quite out of the question. Take a look at 'another' source and it's numbers.

    It can me done =)
    Listen to the people - they will guide you..
  • edited January 28 PM
    [edited] i don't think a classic server is a viable solution for the long term, the live is much better in my opinion. What will it do? 4 times these die.
    Post edited by Driralin on
  • edited January 28 PM
    Hellblast wrote: »
    [edited] i don't think a classic server is a viable solution for the long term, the live is much better in my opinion. What will it do? 4 times these die.

    Fair enough, but, I just looked at the numbers on another one and each realm has over 400 folks playing as we speak... And I've seen it MUCH higher than that.
    Post edited by Driralin on
    Listen to the people - they will guide you..
  • edited January 26 PM
    8 months after start it was at 400peak/each realm. Now it remains there.

    I dont think anymore, Ywain will survive. They prob wont make the changes that are necessary for that. Even if they did, im not sure if it would change sth. because the time was missed. Time was when EC released, now that is over.
    If population drops further, some day it might not be fun for me anymore.
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • Hellblast wrote: »
    look at the last classic freeshard it is almost dead, i don't think a classic server is a viable solution for the long term, the live is much better in my opinion. What will it do? 4 times these die.

    Still more players than Ywain :D
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • edited January 26 PM
    After 8 months only they pass from more then 3500 (~1200 people each realm) to 400 per realm during week-end , for me its clearly a new death server in couple months
    Post edited by Hellblast on
  • Hellblast wrote: »
    After 8 months only they pass from more then 3500 (~1200 people each realm) to 400 per realm during week-end , for me its clearly a new death server in couple months

    Any new server will experience a population decline in the first ~6 months. This is why, by the way, most people here are asking for a seasonal server and not something permanent like Ywain.

    The true health of a new server is the stability of its population after the hype period. Currently, the trend does not support your two month statement and has held steady now for five months. Time will tell if the trend will change (up or down) but not without some external (new games / public awareness) or internal (developer decisions) factors as demonstrated by its predecessor.

    Broadsword has all the data they need to come up with a very attractive new server. Whether or not they'll put in the effort remains to be determined.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • I suppose I'll add my two cents worth.

    DAoC was my first real MMORPG. I played it alongside my brother way back in 2002 (and we still play to this day). It feels to me that the sense of camaraderie has gone downhill and Realm Pride is nearly non-existent. To be honest, I miss the old DAoC... Dragon raids, DF raids, hell, even a Galla Raid (Yeah, i played Hib for most of my DAoC life). As of right now, the game, whilst fun, just seems like a Bounty Point run to buy the latest and greatest gear as quickly as possible then go hop on the zerg train to make those arpees.

    With that said, I feel both sides of this conversation. Sure, a 'Classic' server would be pretty amazing - bring this game back to its roots, so-to-speak. On the other hand, the whole 'Seasons' idea is pretty nifty as well... I personally would prefer a Classic server, but, you all have some pretty amazing points.

    It is exactly the same for me (me too was an Hib player).

    I only add two things.

    One of the most important points of this game was the spirit of the realm (of which many speak, but very few interest) and this was created thanks to two conditions: 1) you could only play on a realm and 2) to make the 100% of the classes it was necessary to group both in exp and in RvR.

    Now with bots / potions / items / etc a class can do practically everything (regen, heals, speed etc), with the Classic rules a healer could not do anything if he had no group, a tank would take a lifetime to do exp without healing , a caster died against a mob blue without tank that kept aggro .... and this created friendships and a sense of camaraderie and we all went to the border to fight together for the realm ... now we all play alone ... none friendship, no camaraderie and obviously no spirit of realm.

    Remove all these self buffs / pots / self regens etc and the players will have to team up to do something and we will get back the old daoc that we all loved.

    iMHO
  • Hello everyone,

    I try to make a summary of the discussion.

    The majority seem to be addressing on these grounds:

    1) want a new Classic + SI server (no ToA - OW - Curse etc etc).
    2) only those who pay for the subscription play
    3) you can only play on one realm per account
    4) you must restore utility to crafting
    5) Impose classic ruleset buff restrictions and (if really necessary, i’m not sure of that) include supremacy potions (no buffbots)
    6) Poll the community on which frontier zone to use (OF / NF)

    Are these points correct? do you agree with me?

    so we can give Carol @ broadsword and John @ broadsword something concrete to think about / work on.
  • AlaskaMike wrote: »
    I would like the "seasons" to be even a couple years old if possible, but not at the expense of the experience. Once population starts dropping, scrap it and make a new "season".

    Doesn't have to be a strict 6 months each or whatever. If a rule set just flops, replace it after 2 months, who cares. Just have a measurable metric of player count (daily/weekly/whatever) and reset when that is reached.

    This is one thing i feel needs to be stricter and not in the grey area. Create win conditions. Promote For the Realm. Give leaders and realms something to lead/defend/win for.

    There could be a total realm point system in which various things add to. Even if the season finishes early at say 5 months. the hype for the following one would be huge. Don't let it drag out - inbetween seasons everyone can get their fix on Ywain.

    Things that work for that season keep (implement), things that didnt quite work bin.
  • @Gildar
    Its no good idea to sell content of 15people as "the majority wants".
    In fact there is no need for a summary. All they have to do is read this thread. (and i think they did)
  • There is a simple fix for all of broadswords problems basically the majority of the changes that have been made to ywain on toons siege dynamic and class balance are not Working.
    Evidently when you had a population of 3.5 k prior to all of these then the game must of been ok for people to play.
    Just see where the first big population drop occured and then reroll everything back to then.
    If your gonna bring in class changes do one realm at a time with proper consultation.
    Bring in the realm timer people voted for.
    Get the game on steam and reintroduce proper free to play it’s not rocket science.

    Really can’t see the point of a new server classic has been and gone it’s dead the free shard has been and gone.
    If your bring anything back from old frontiers maybe the old bridges and bring in the old archery system and get rid of stealth grouping.
  • edited January 28 PM
    @Brut I'm not sure why everybody is so quick at dismissing a classic/older ruleset server.

    [edited]

    Again, should the server be a pre-BS server, basically starting where BS picked it up? That would be quite the slap in the face for BS, so I doubt they'll go there.

    Is it a classic/SI setting (a no-ToA server)? There is def some demand for it (see shards).

    I like the seasonal approach, however while the server is fun at the beginning because of population, the action itself is just zergs over zergs, there is very little diversity. Again, the game is fun at 1.5k players.

    One game that I am following has a really interesting approach to seasonal pvp. Crowfall.

    Their concept is that there is a permanent RvR server. Players can always go in that zone, the ruleset is permanent, your gains in loot, cash, etc. are all there forever. However, the gain you make from playing that server are limited.

    Then on top you have seasonal events, that are planned to span from 1 month to 6 months. They always have alternate rulesets, and the best gear can only be obtained by playing in these seasonal PvP events.

    How it works is that you "transfer" your character to an seasonal event server and that character is then locked to that event (so the realm you are on is also locked for the duration of the event). Depending on the ruleset, you can bring your full gear or only a limited amount of items, or no items at all. Then the season starts and you RvR for the duration with the objective of "winning" that event. Winning criterias are always changing. At the same time, the best gear (or materials to make the best gear, think Bountycrafting here) can only be obtained in these events. At the end of the season, depending on the ruleset, you can either bring all the items you got or only a limited amount back to the "permanent" servers.

    However, a huge difference is that Crowfall is 100% gear driven, there are no RPs/RAs so character progression is somewhat limited.

    But the concept of mixing permanence (ywain) with temporary (new alternate seasonal servers) are interesting. But you can't launch alternate servers every 3-6 months and spend 3-6 months fixing them. There is definitely some logistics and design updates to be done.

    Maybe the alternate servers can be coded using more modern game engines?
    Post edited by Driralin on
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