What was the new Sieging System supposed to do?

Hi there, i remember when BS was talking to players that when it came to sieging they all had said stop making it easy for Hero to come with his tank train and clear out the keep with his unending heals and i thought the siege update was supposed to fix that (i heard once they were gonna make heals not be able to stretch passed wall) but ended up doing is just killing rvr for me entirely...Now you have people sitting in keeps and people not wanting to siege at all because...well there really is no reason for it, and that was what made rvr for me, bring dozens of rams, having to have 10 healers constantly healing the ram driver and once the doors open you charge in, but now its just "we know the enemy is in there, so lets find those 8mans now" like what? lets take some towers! lets make the entire mid map green like the old days! lets take relics!
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  • The siege crafting changes and ram updates were only part of it, the upcoming 1.125 patch deals more with RvR and sieging :)
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  • Heror is not the only BG leader. And he runs mostly Euro primetime. But I agree that sieging/mass RVR has changed- Not so much due to the siege changes, but well, the battlegroups.
    US prime time there is often a large Mid battlegroup, and 2 large Albion battlegroups, no Hib battlegroup. I know Mids/Albs often think we have one, but its normally 2-4 8 mans, a few small and an occasional 16 (normally when there is what seems to be another 16, the afore mentioned zergs- or when the IRC groups tag team on any 8 man that dares to try RVR as intended- not setting up controlled little fights. The Hibs will often end up in the same area, but it isn't a Bg with a leader calling orders and such.

    The Mids and Albs outnumber Hibs 4-1 most evenings and don't seem to go after each other directly a lot. The Albs seem more likely to hit a keep if there are 2-3 separate groups of Hibs that try to defend, the Mids rarely do, even though we set up inside expecting to get rolled, we just want to fight and they don't hit. Perhaps they are leary of the Albs AJ'ing or vice verse, but who cares, it's just a /release. People use to not mind releasing but lately, if a BG dies once or twice half of them log and go to another realm, which brings me to another issue affecting BG/RVR/Siege, the lack of timer.

    The bonuses kind of helped a little, but I'll still see population numbers alter drastically. One realm may have no bonus, another is at 30. Then a Bg leader logs in and it swaps.

    The timer was chipped down over time until it was removed. This was pre-Ywain if I'm not mistaken. Now that it is all one server, it may be time to re-think. I mostly play one realm, and understand many like to swap. That's fine, I've caved to the concept. But there should be something in place for this. I've seen situations where a keep may have 5 groups defending vs 7 attacking groups, and within 5-10 minutes, there are 2 groups defending and 10 groups attacking. Sometimes a coincidence, but often not, as many of us know each others' realm alts, we can often see the swap happen. Some of them give hugs.... heh

    What about a realm loyalty bonus? After being logged in to a realm an x number of hours the bonus starts, and remains while you only log that realm- or something- just an on the cuff idea.

    I'm excited to see what Carol is referencing.. I hope.
  • I agree I miss realm loyalty, I have tried to play other realms but afterall I bleed blue. However Hibs do have the number they just dont organize like Albs and Mids do. The problem with Herorius is when he attacks a keep there is absolutely no way to defend, that is why when people talk about fixing sieging...keep herorius from being able to take 3 tanks and clear a oil lvl full of casters with no problem at all. I love how solo's can get rp's when they defend against Albs or Hibs that arent Herorius but when its Herorius people dont even try because they know they wont be able to do anything. THATS the problem i refrence. Also the whole zergs wont hit keep anymore, thats a big what i would like to change, i miss waking up and logging on and half or all of mid was red or green, the siege is what made daoc RvR, now its just PvP. Billings once parked inside Bold and Xyorman knew he was in there but decided to go in circles for over 45 minutes...45 minutes...why didnt we go after the keep? because there is no reason to, only the Albs would have benefitted
  • Timers don't have to be implemented in ways that make them a punishment. What about a 30 minute realm timer that only takes effect once a character on the account earns 1 realm point? Then you eliminate the arguments of people wanting to login and see where friends are, check CM's, etc. Plus 30 minutes is not an insane amount of time to be locked out of switching realms.
    RR12 Stormlord Wizard
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  • The siege crafting changes and ram updates were only part of it, the upcoming 1.125 patch deals more with RvR and sieging :)

    I have a problem, that my trebuchet does less damage with special crafted ammunition then the standard version. 1100 normal and 1000 with the special.
  • Would be nice to remove climb wall from hero/warrior and armsman , herorius and 2 fg of hero/vampiir running inside a keep and kill everything with is assist train . Its boring as hell ... and almost impossible to defend .
  • Hellblast wrote: »
    Would be nice to remove climb wall from hero/warrior and armsman , herorius and 2 fg of hero/vampiir running inside a keep and kill everything with is assist train . Its boring as hell ... and almost impossible to defend .

    Hopefully the new Oil level area with doors that need to be knocked down will help a bit with that as long as they are in LOS for casters in the CY.
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • edited May 2018 PM
    Sovereign wrote: »
    Timers don't have to be implemented in ways that make them a punishment. What about a 30 minute realm timer that only takes effect once a character on the account earns 1 realm point? Then you eliminate the arguments of people wanting to login and see where friends are, check CM's, etc. Plus 30 minutes is not an insane amount of time to be locked out of switching realms.

    Your point is certainly valid. With the myriad modes of communications I would think logging on to see is the last option for getting stuck on a realm. It had been suggested that only logging into NF would trigger a timer --- if that was possible, it would be the best option if one decided that realm timers were useful tool.

    No changes in siege are really going to mean anything at certain times of the day because the flow of people from one realm to another is what makes RvR dead ---- without affecting that, and making it profitable to defend, the rest is cosmetic.

    Post edited by Xyorman on
  • Xyorman wrote: »
    No changes in siege are really going to mean anything at certain times of the day because the flow of people from one realm to another is what makes RvR dead ---- without affecting that, and making it profitable to defend, the rest is cosmetic.

    As a leader yourself, what are teh reasons you choose to siege, and avoid sieging? And at what estimated ratio would it be viable for you to siege a defended keep?
  • I'm torn on this...

    For starters, stop using herorius as your example. Everything that everyone is complaining about happens during American prime time with Albs and Mids. It's not like Hib is the most populated realm all the time. Hell, Crim and Bolg are almost always taken right away during American time so this os not a Herorius only issue.

    Secondly, just remember this whole conversation when they make taking keeps harder and then everyone complains because taking keeps is too hard to do. Its a tough balancing act for BS. You want people to take and defend keeps but if you favor the attackers or defenders too much then it kills siege warfare. I will admit that with the current settings its tough to defend unless you got similar #'s.
  • Sovereign wrote: »
    Timers don't have to be implemented in ways that make them a punishment. What about a 30 minute realm timer that only takes effect once a character on the account earns 1 realm point? Then you eliminate the arguments of people wanting to login and see where friends are, check CM's, etc. Plus 30 minutes is not an insane amount of time to be locked out of switching realms.

    This
  • Hero is the entire reason they changed siege rps so he would stop PVEing keeps. Then they added a 4 month long ghost keep and he PVE’d keeps past rr14.
    Unkillable tanks via the hero EU Zerg need to be addressed along with a tweak to realm bonuses.
    Kudos Hib isn’t a ghost town anymore during US prime time.
  • No LOS spread healing tooo strong. When you disease a wall climber and 4 people are nuking him and he doesn't die..... there is a broken mechanic there.
    ~Westies
  • edited May 2018 PM
    I agree about the healing through walls things.

    Opinions of course, but having people being able to heal from areas of complete safety is a bit whacky game design IMO.

    Most games have some abilities that do this, but not something you can just sit there and spam.

    ****, my Eld has a GT AoE spell that does literally 140 dmg and doesn't require LoS and even it has a five second or so cooldown.

    That and the heat seeking catapult shots/pets that seemingly ignore physics as they phase through four stone walls. The other day I somehow targeted this one dude who kept sitting after getting rez'd and I was able to just keep firing on him. I think I rez killed the poor bastard 4-5 times with the catapult because I had no other targets and this is some sort of ethereal seige engine that phases through stone.
    Post edited by Budikah on
  • Spread heals and group heals should cost 200% more or they should heal for less. This game used to take skill by target healing and posturing... no you just stand by a fop and hold 1 button down.
    ~Westies
  • Got to admit it is kind of cheesy the way my pet goes into an inner keep and to the roof interrupting the poor slob on top. Keep him/her in my target and spam heals until pet dies. Yeah, not nice. But in defense, it is a crappy pet, even buffed up.
  • RonELuvv wrote: »
    I'm torn on this...

    For starters, stop using herorius as your example. Everything that everyone is complaining about happens during American prime time with Albs and Mids. It's not like Hib is the most populated realm all the time. Hell, Crim and Bolg are almost always taken right away during American time so this os not a Herorius only issue.

    I agree, I honestly don't get why Herorius get's singled out. If it wasn't for Herorius there wouldn't be a Hibernia bg. Also why complain about the way Herorius runs because Xyorman and Rescu do exactly the same thing, PvE a few keeps and hunt after fg of visi's and stealthers on EV. I don't see any difference to the way Herorius plays.
  • Solicfear1 wrote: »
    RonELuvv wrote: »
    I'm torn on this...

    For starters, stop using herorius as your example. Everything that everyone is complaining about happens during American prime time with Albs and Mids. It's not like Hib is the most populated realm all the time. Hell, Crim and Bolg are almost always taken right away during American time so this os not a Herorius only issue.

    I agree, I honestly don't get why Herorius get's singled out. If it wasn't for Herorius there wouldn't be a Hibernia bg. Also why complain about the way Herorius runs because Xyorman and Rescu do exactly the same thing, PvE a few keeps and hunt after fg of visi's and stealthers on EV. I don't see any difference to the way Herorius plays.

    I like to use Herorius as an example because he provides the clearest and easiest way to observe the concerns surrounding climbing tanks and out of LOS healing versus defenders.
    RR12 Stormlord Wizard
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  • Everyone singles out Herorius but how is he any different than most players in this game? Any time he hits a keep there are various defenders on walls being healed by healers out of LOS. It's no different.
  • To me it's just plain pointless to defend a keep with a palintone or treb,buffing guards etc., using costly player crafted bolts and hitting several people causing damage and subsequently dying and receiving nothing for the effort. How much did 50 mids get by killing me and capturing the keep? Maybe not much but some got something, even if only worthless keys. I won't be defending solo again. Not only that but the rooftop siege won't even reach the tower or tent or target people in the yard or close by outside. You want defenders make it worthwhile somehow. I didn't expect to stop a mid or alb bg but I did expect something besides having my "'privacy,' Carol" violated by having my ignominious death plastered all over the region.
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