No realm timers...

No realm timers make for some seriously lop sided fights. No way to take relics back when Albs jump on their Hibs just to screw Mids over by logging on toons they have in each relic keep. My main question is why are the Albs not wanting to get their relics back and would rather let the HIbs have all 6 relics? Please advise why an hour realm timer is a bad thing?
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  • Even just 15 minutes would deter a lot of hoppers. I’m all for realm timers
  • Very few disagree with realm timers. And its' for obvious reason... xD
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  • Because in this day and age peeps gonna do what they want and they pay their subs. Honestly just be glad the pop isn't worse and there is stuff to fight. Besides it's more fun to do the impossible and beat the odds.
  • Impounded that's a bg player view concerning timers
  • You would still have access to all 3 realms quit trying to claim you wouldn't be able to play what you want. You're being restricted from your cheesy a** realm hopping play style.

    Once again the only people that are opposed to the timers are you few that realm hop.

    Next excuse?
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  • I noticed it again today after winning a couple fights. Our BG went from around 40-50 to 80+. I gather most are from the Alb BG since guard death counts dropped each time they hit a keep or tower. While I think a short Realm timer will help in that regard, I don't think it will stop how some of the BG encounters have been going. A change in tactics is sorely needed for Alb (no offense).

    There has always been a population imbalance during BG hours. Albs dominated while DKoC was still around. Then, Mids began to dominate when DKoC left. Albs had another brief moment before Mids took over again. Now, Hibs are doing extremely well. I suspect the balance will shift again when the Holidays end. The population will always flow, timers or not.

    At least now we have three BGs in the fold as opposed to two. It really feels like DAoC again. All out war. I will continue to do my part on the weekends.
  • I have to agree with you Beetle, but i am still think the realm timer at least 30mins would solve that hop, hop problem.
  • Too many bandwagoners.
  • The game is supposed to be about Realm v Realm -- timers will help but need to be part of a package to put the emphasis on where the gameplay should be ---- while the producers letter promised to emphasize RvR, the changes have been contrary to that <imo>, yes some nice fights but way, way, way too many lopsided fights, PVE of keeps for BP/RP, etc; I am not sure that is fully understood across the board.
  • I love the idea of a 15 minute realm timer. Since I solo 99% of the time, I hop between realms fairly often. I do it for multiple reasons, but in the end if I really wanted to switch realms that badly I most definitely would not mind waiting 15min to do so.

    I know a lot of you like to say it would ruin population... that you would lose subs... I think you're overreacting or trying to sway opinions with fear... a 15 minute timer would be so minimal that after the first 2 weeks you would forget all about it. People would QQ for 2 weeks then it would be the norm
  • I agree with Armagedden, I also switch realms a lot and 15 minutes wouldn't bother me in the least. It'd definately not be something I'd cancel over.
  • My group usually looks to switch realm to the one with the fewest 8-mans running in order to get the most action, sometimes multiple times per night as groups split and new ones join the fray.

    Being unable to do this or having to wait 15-30 minutes in the middle of a prime time would mean we would no longer have the option to try and balance out the action if we were unfortunate enough to log in a realm that has too many groups running already, or action changes, which would be most inconvenient not only for us but for the action as a whole.

    I see the problem for the battlegroups, but if a player feels the need to swap a realm but is unable to, isn't the player with that mindset more likely to just log off rather than keep losing? One could ask themselves if people potentially not playing is a better outcome than having people join the winning team? A timer also prevents people on the winning team from joining the losing team in an effort to balance things out, which I suppose isn't a common thing to do for BG players, but it is for 8mans.

    Also hib relics are always hard to take, they are the strongest realm at keep defense, they have the most 8man groups running at US time of which only a few need to defend a relic keep to deter an entire zerg, and seemingly hib population is on the up and up. Not sure how much realm hopping really plays into it all.
  • Flik wrote: »
    I see the problem for the battlegroups, but if a player feels the need to swap a realm but is unable to, isn't the player with that mindset more likely to just log off rather than keep losing? One could ask themselves if people potentially not playing is a better outcome than having people join the winning team? A timer also prevents people on the winning team from joining the losing team in an effort to balance things out, which I suppose isn't a common thing to do for BG players, but it is for 8mans.

    Don't pretend you realm hoppers join the losing side that is complete BS. If you actually did maybe you wouldn't have such a tainted name.

    And you are saying it's ok for people to leave the losing realm and join the winning realm.. Because hey let's keep them in game right? In turn f*cking up balance even further and basically saying F*ck you and your fun to everyone else... seems legit, nice logic :)
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  • It's not about your 8 man Flik, it's all about the what the game was designed for and that is Realm vs. Realm...when your bg drops by 15% when you attempt a relic take shows it all. A realm timer is needed.
  • Impounded wrote: »
    Flik wrote: »
    I see the problem for the battlegroups, but if a player feels the need to swap a realm but is unable to, isn't the player with that mindset more likely to just log off rather than keep losing? One could ask themselves if people potentially not playing is a better outcome than having people join the winning team? A timer also prevents people on the winning team from joining the losing team in an effort to balance things out, which I suppose isn't a common thing to do for BG players, but it is for 8mans.

    Don't pretend you realm hoppers join the losing side that is complete BS. If you actually did maybe you wouldn't have such a tainted name.

    And you are saying it's ok for people to leave the losing realm and join the winning realm.. Because hey let's keep them in game right? In turn f*cking up balance even further and basically saying F*ck you and your fun to everyone else... seems legit, nice logic :)

    We hop realms to join the team with the lowest population(roaming 8mans) yes, and we are far from the only group to do so. Wherever we have the most enemies to fight, we go.

    I don't necessarily condone the behavior of joining the winning team as I will look to do the opposite myself, I merely pose the question if it is preferable to have a player join the enemy side, or log off entirely?
  • Simple answer is log off...
  • Areir wrote: »
    It's not about your 8 man Flik, it's all about the what the game was designed for and that is Realm vs. Realm...when your bg drops by 15% when you attempt a relic take shows it all. A realm timer is needed.

    Not only my 8man, many groups do the same and a timer would harm our entire playstyle. On the contrary I don't see evidence that a realm timer would realistically solve anything. As i pointed out in my first post, the hib relics are hard to take back, they would likely stay where they are even with a 24 hour timer implemented. The only way they were taken back last time hibs had all 6 was with the alb and mid BGs both teaming up vs far fewer numbers than hib field these days, and with heavy casualties. So the relics being unable to be taken isn't exactly proof that a timer is needed, and a drop in a BG attempting this could just as likely be people realizing this and not bothering as it is people realm hopping.
  • edited January 1 PM
    A realm timer would prevent Alb, Mids and Hib from jumping to defend a relic insantaneously, Would that really have any impact on your 8v8?
    Post edited by Areir on
  • I doubt a 15 minute realm timer would upset 8man gameplay unless you're switching constantly, which itself is problematic. You won't get any action if everyone keeps switching around realms. Incorporating a trigger, such as earning RPs, would allow you to pick a realm without having to wait.
  • BS plays and have played to the 8 man communtity since they took over, doubt anything will change
  • edited January 1 PM
    Flik wrote: »
    We hop realms to join the team with the lowest population(roaming 8mans) yes, and we are far from the only group to do so. Wherever we have the most enemies to fight, we go.

    I don't necessarily condone the behavior of joining the winning team as I will look to do the opposite myself, I merely pose the question if it is preferable to have a player join the enemy side, or log off entirely?

    Then a 10-15 minute timer wouldn't affect you. You act like you switch every 5 minutes. The only time a realm timer would affect you in any actual way is if you were planning on rapid realm jumps to defend a relic or keep knowing it's quick defense bonus rps.

    I have /stats numerous 8m players that were running on mid. As soon as word got out we were going to try for a relic they logged onto their hibs set up defense and would thwart our attempts. The fact anyone can support that is mind boggling.

    Don't talk about a timer ruining the game for your 8m. when you guys ruin the game for MANY other realm loyal players.
    Post edited by Impounded on
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  • Areir wrote: »
    A realm timer would prevent Alb, Mids and Hib from jumping to defend a relic insantaneously, Would that really have any impact on your 8v8?

    A timer would hinder our efforts of balancing the realms for better action, either denying it or delaying it, depending on the duration of the timer.
    I doubt a 15 minute realm timer would upset 8man gameplay unless you're switching constantly, which itself is problematic. You won't get any action if everyone keeps switching around realms. Incorporating a trigger, such as earning RPs, would allow you to pick a realm without having to wait.

    It would be an inconvenience although a manageable one, I have no doubts it would have a positive impact on the "realm war" but I do believe people are exaggerating the positive effects it would have. As it does nothing but hinder my own playstyle I will take the chance to state my objections, but I do recognize that there may very well be upsides as well.

    With that said, I don't believe a timer is ever happening, you simply cannot retroactively change stuff like that and remove a convenience people are used to.

  • Hinder your efforts of balancing realms is a **** joke...get real
  • edited January 2 PM
    Aren't you the (removed) that deleted water anyway...yeah your vote counts
    Post edited by Amadeus on
  • A better solution would be to focus on F2P and restrict them to one realm. Assuming BS laxes their current model a bit and uses some of our suggestions, we could see a large influx of players which would help buffer any swings in population due to realm hopping.
  • edited January 1 PM
    Calm down @Areir , all I've done is correctly point out that my preferred playstyle would only end up suffering if a timer were to be implemented, I merely want that to be taken into consideration when weighing the options.
    Post edited by Flik on
  • No, you want to sway the vote in your preffered playstyles direction, which is not in the majority...keep trying
  • @Flik you would realistically log out of the game if you had to wait 15 minutes to switch? It takes about that time to reform, between deciding the setup and who plays what, which can happen in discord while you wait on the timer.
  • We'd be more inclined to stay on a worse realm action wise as opposed to wasting time, resulting in a worse playing experience, or log off early if at the end of the prime time.

    Again, it'd be manageable, but for my playstyle it's only cons with no pros, so I don't support it.
  • Because this game is about wasting your time..your whole arguement against realm timers is irelavant
  • wasting time playing the game, not twiddling your thumbs while waiting to do so.
  • edited January 1 PM
    Grab a drink, take a piss, hug your kids...a lot you could do in 15 minutes
    Post edited by Areir on
  • @Flik what if the realm timer could be bypassed if realm is underpopulated!
  • Seemingly not a bad idea for general purposes, but a realms over/underpopulation doesn't necessarily indicate the quality of its roaming 8man action. For instance it's common that hib has a huge bonus US time because mid and alb zergs are out, but hib will be the only realm with roaming 8mans out, and the opposite is often true for EU time.

    So for my purposes that mechanic isn't necessarily an upgrade and I'd still like to not see a timer implemented, but for the battlegroups it seems like it could be a positive thing.
  • The bg's pay for the game, lol...your own personal interest which is the minority
  • Flik wrote: »
    Calm down @Areir , all I've done is correctly point out that my preferred playstyle would only end up suffering if a timer were to be implemented, I merely want that to be taken into consideration when weighing the options.

    If you watch the numbers and %'s, at the worst for imbalance times, switching isn't EVER to the smaller realm ---- and with the continual mismatches, it makes it impossible to try and rebalance things relic wise, etc ---- timers are needed but simply NOT the only thing required---the game has gone so far down the Dark Age of Questalot road, actually encouraging PvE for BP's and running over less with more for BP/RP, that timers are just a part of the solution.

    I make no comment on who actually switches for what -- the numbers simply don't reflect switching realms improving balance -- in fact they demonstrate the opposite.

  • edited January 1 PM
    Areir wrote: »
    The bg's pay for the game, lol...your own personal interest which is the minority

    I kind of have to agree, I would have to guess that, there is a very small number of people who hop with a group from one realm to another just to get there perfect fight. I feel this might help bg combat (I personally done care about this), but mostly I just want a stable population (back when you had just one realm per server, you had more realm pride, you could guess where bob would be, you would have your fights every night where your small man would own the crappy 8 man camping docks, you would open ports so that you had a nice triangle of portable keeps so that you could get some good pub 8 mans going, ext).

    I feel a time (personally I would like a timer that starts when you swap realms and lasts 3-5 days or so, if your gonna jump realm and defend then your gonna be defending for the next week so it better be worth it (i know most people would hate this so it wont happen but that's what I personally would like (add some realm pride back to the game), maybe add the quicker jump if realm is under populated you want to go to, ext).

    and yes its your money and you want to play it your way, but if your way ruins most peoples and the games "sustainable" fun then for the games sake let the masses benefit and the few suffer (ya i'm a utilitarian when it comes to games); this game was disigned and created with the idea of "no" realm hopping, and if the public want for a "Old" daoc has shown you anything people liked it and it worked for the most part (i think it could be improved but tha'ts just my option).

    Post edited by rocketait on
  • edited January 1 PM
    Xyorman wrote: »
    Flik wrote: »
    Calm down @Areir , all I've done is correctly point out that my preferred playstyle would only end up suffering if a timer were to be implemented, I merely want that to be taken into consideration when weighing the options.

    If you watch the numbers and %'s, at the worst for imbalance times, switching isn't EVER to the smaller realm ---- and with the continual mismatches, it makes it impossible to try and rebalance things relic wise, etc ---- timers are needed but simply NOT the only thing required---the game has gone so far down the Dark Age of Questalot road, actually encouraging PvE for BP's and running over less with more for BP/RP, that timers are just a part of the solution.

    I make no comment on who actually switches for what -- the numbers simply don't reflect switching realms improving balance -- in fact they demonstrate the opposite.


    I don't disagree at all; when it comes to the battlegroups and the realm war. Us 8mans like to distance ourselves from that however. The zergs attacking keeps mainland and not rolling EV all night makes us happy as can be, leaving us to our devices and fighting the other 8mans that come there.

    You are likely right that a timer wouldn't be enough to solve any real issues on its own, and as it does nothing but provide unneeded obstacles for us I must continue my objections. Being the minority, true as it may be, does not exempt us from consideration.

    I hold no hopes of convincing anyone to agree with my views, all I ask is that broadsword sees that the wish to implement a realm timer is not an unanimous one.


    Post edited by Flik on
  • @Flik I think your point is valid, your playstyle would likely interfere with realm timers, however not by much. Since Ywain come to life, realm timers was off, and 8 man teams got used to running all 3 realms and change fast for more action, however it wasn't always like that, there been guilds before who ran one realm only, but of course times have changed.

    Although, if you want it that bad, since it's an account lock, in theory you can have 2 or 3 accounts (2 is not much by old standards too), and run 2 realms easily with even 30 min realm timer, or you can swap a lot by using 2 accs every 30min too. Buff bots not really needed that much anyway with new pots.

    While your point is valid, if your playstyle is to play 8 man and swap to always get a lot of action, it requiring a bit more effort (2 acc at least) isn't that huge deal I think. Old times when there was realm lock on server I remember most did decide which realm to play that day, and back then 8 man action was much more part of the game then today.

    If zerg hoppers keep doing this with 2-3 acc also, at least they pay more of the bill ;)
  • Flik wrote: »
    Xyorman wrote: »
    Flik wrote: »
    Calm down @Areir , all I've done is correctly point out that my preferred playstyle would only end up suffering if a timer were to be implemented, I merely want that to be taken into consideration when weighing the options.

    If you watch the numbers and %'s, at the worst for imbalance times, switching isn't EVER to the smaller realm ---- and with the continual mismatches, it makes it impossible to try and rebalance things relic wise, etc ---- timers are needed but simply NOT the only thing required---the game has gone so far down the Dark Age of Questalot road, actually encouraging PvE for BP's and running over less with more for BP/RP, that timers are just a part of the solution.

    I make no comment on who actually switches for what -- the numbers simply don't reflect switching realms improving balance -- in fact they demonstrate the opposite.


    I don't disagree at all; when it comes to the battlegroups and the realm war. Us 8mans like to distance ourselves from that however. The zergs attacking keeps mainland and not rolling EV all night makes us happy as can be, leaving us to our devices and fighting the other 8mans that come there.

    You are likely right that a timer wouldn't be enough to solve any real issues on its own, and as it does nothing but provide unneeded obstacles for us I must continue my objections. Being the minority, true as it may be, does not exempt us from consideration.

    I hold no hopes of convincing anyone to agree with my views, all I ask is that broadsword sees that the wish to implement a realm timer is not an unanimous one.


    The problem is the 'real 8 mans' <frankly I don't think there really are any anymore but that is my opinion> are quite often the ones realm hopping and defending relics or taking with the larger zerg non US prime ---- while perhaps there are a few who stoically stay on EV to 8 --- I don't much see it


  • The problem here is it's not only the 8 mans that swap realms, it's the average Joe swapping to the defending realm on a whim...Realm timers, if only 5 minutes would be a plus
  • Areir wrote: »
    The problem here is it's not only the 8 mans that swap realms, it's the average Joe swapping to the defending realm on a whim...Realm timers, if only 5 minutes would be a plus

    Well, as said in another thread, the DEVS seem to think the entire playerbase is against this ....
  • Areir wrote: »
    The problem here is it's not only the 8 mans that swap realms, it's the average Joe swapping to the defending realm on a whim...Realm timers, if only 5 minutes would be a plus

    Some of us average Joes want the realm timer too (though I think it would need to be more like 20 mins). Or whatever mechanics it takes to help keep the RvR more balanced.
  • Realm timers wont help with anything but being an annoyance for people who actually play more than one realm. Because anything under a certain amount of time maybe 5-15 minutes isnt useful enough to keep people from switching to defend a relic. Anything more than that is a huge annoyance for people doing anything and needing to switch to another realm (trades, joining a group, pve on one realm before rvring on another, swapping realms for better action).
  • edited January 2 PM
    Few questions, how would that work with houses that have multiple people playing different realms? Whether it is spouses, kids, or roommates? For that matter what would stop people with multiple accounts from just playing a different account on another realm? Personally I don't care about realm timers as I don't switch too often, but I honestly don't think it would change anything. Complaining that people switching realms makes it hard on a realm that has a much bigger BG seems funny to me. Be glad you actually get a fight. If people are upset about albs switching to hib to be able to compete with a giant mid bg that confuses me. That seems like exactly why you are able to switch, for balance.
    Post edited by RonELuvv on
  • Don't they call some 8 man IRC? Aren't they in some voice coms already where they can coordinate their 8 man fights? Just say what realm you are going to play before you log in. Problem solved.
  • RonELuvv wrote: »
    Few questions, how would that work with houses that have multiple people playing different realms? Whether it is spouses, kids, or roommates? For that matter what would stop people with multiple accounts from just playing a different account on another realm? Personally I don't care about realm timers as I don't switch too often, but I honestly don't think it would change anything. Complaining that people switching realms makes it hard on a realm that has a much bigger BG seems funny to me. Be glad you actually get a fight. If people are upset about albs switching to hib to be able to compete with a giant mid bg that confuses me. That seems like exactly why you are able to switch, for balance.

    People don't switch for balance -- there in lies the rub....

  • Pigleto wrote: »
    Don't they call some 8 man IRC? Aren't they in some voice coms already where they can coordinate their 8 man fights? Just say what realm you are going to play before you log in. Problem solved.

    I don't think the majority of 8mans are IRC groups. Only some are.
    RonELuvv wrote: »
    Few questions, how would that work with houses that have multiple people playing different realms? Whether it is spouses, kids, or roommates? For that matter what would stop people with multiple accounts from just playing a different account on another realm? Personally I don't care about realm timers as I don't switch too often, but I honestly don't think it would change anything. Complaining that people switching realms makes it hard on a realm that has a much bigger BG seems funny to me. Be glad you actually get a fight. If people are upset about albs switching to hib to be able to compete with a giant mid bg that confuses me. That seems like exactly why you are able to switch, for balance.

    Multiple accounts really isn't an issue. Good business for Broadsword. And to be clear, the Hib BG was already competing with Mids AND Albs the evening of this post before people switched. The switch didn't bring balance, it made us outnumber the other BGs. This kind of activity doesn't support three way fights during prime time hours.
  • I’m still upset that I can’t play my chanter and animist since hib swappers keep making it pointless :(
  • edited January 2 PM
    I don't understand @Beetleguisse and @Xyorman. I have heard, in the past, complaints that people generally switch realms to join the biggest BG. For the most part, my personal experiences would back that up.

    Now according to many here people are upset because the opposite happened and instead of everyone logging to join the bigger BG people switched to gang up on the bigger BG.

    As I said before, I don't switch realms very often and I don't run with BG's very much, but when I did used to run with Herorius on occasion I never thought it was a problem if Albs or Mids switched realms to compete with Herorius. So I am a bit confused why this is an issue for the Mids at night during American prime time. I would rather 2 lower population realms switched and combined up to make a better fight than to run a BG in which you pretty much roll over everything and PvE keeps. Just my opinion. It sounds to me like Mids are just upset that their relic raid got defended against.

    Also, nobody has yet to answer some very basic questions I asked....

    1. How would realm timers effect households with multiple players living there. For example, I play Hib but my room mate wants to play Mid. You couldn't do ISP's for that reason.

    2. If you can't do ISP's for the reason listed above then what would stop people from still switching that have multiple accounts?

    I am by no means a computer programmer but I would think you would either need to make this ISP based or account based. Both have work arounds and/or issues associated with them. How do you work around those issues and work arounds?
    Post edited by RonELuvv on
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