Returning Player Feedback

edited April 2018 in General Board
I'm going to keep this pretty pointed and constructive. I've played live DAoC back at launch, then again when Catacombs came out, and now again recently after some time spent on a Classic DAoC server. I'm not "new" to DAoC, but the game is so deep, and I missed so much over the years it might as well be a new learning experience when you step into the arena with people who have been doing this for the whole fourteen years. I read through the Code of Conduct, and I can't see anything I've written here that will run afoul of the rules unless somebody has particularly thin skin to the realities of DAoC live servers.

Information that might be relevant - I have characters on both Albion and Hibernia. I play mostly during NA PST late night times - say 9pm PST on work days, and on my days off I can manage early mornings. For reference - 10am PST is 7pm in Germany whereas 9pm PST is 6am in Germany. Noting this because the game does change between these hours. 10am days for me I can run with zergs, 9pm days I can practically run solo throughout the entire frontier at times unscathed. This is important to note if you are a Euro who doesn't play during the other times, that way some of what I say makes sense. I've gone AFK running through EV and come back unscathed... not likely to happen in the AM times.

In no particular order...

- The economy is rough/dismal for new/returning players. The prices of just about everything seem inflated - 1000p weapons, many items costing 100-300p that are regularly needed for templates. It's possible to cap some stats and make a suit without these items - but when new items are introduced with what are essentially miniature RA's as uses - 5% heals that tick multiple times - it's really not going to be a good time competing against somebody who can pop new item or has a full suit of them. These aren't small things - these /uses are a big deal. Last time I played back when OW was all the rage it seemed to be all about everybody stacking defensive shields miles high with item /uses. I thought I saw somewhere that this was realized to be a bad idea... so instead they put out items that have massive heals built into them? If they are accessible for people, even if you don't like the design decision, you can at least meet the enemy on equal gear footing... right?

- In conjunction and compounding what I wrote above it is rough to get into OW/Curse raids at certain times. It's fairly obvious that only a handful of people are willing to lead these raids, and while anybody can start up their own - the nature of the DAoC social sphere seems to be that unless you are known and trusted, a ton of people aren't going to give you much rope to work with. One misstep and they'll leave you high and dry. Add a lowered population to the mix, and the realization that some people exist outside the Eurosphere, and you've got a ton of people who need items that require a BG to get - a BG that may or may not ever run for them. During my two times back since OW/Curse I've managed to do these raids solely because Rhildor would run them late night on Alb last time, and Solic runs them on my days off on Hib every once and awhile. If I can't attend these raids to get the almost required items within, I'll be spending 300p on a single pair of gloves and whatever else I need from inside. I saw a thread about PvE statues for raid leaders, and I laughed but the reality of it is that if Rhildor didn't run those late night OW raids back on Alb - I'd have likely played and stuck around for even less time since I'd have little/no way of getting the gear I needed.

- Also related to the above - how are new/returning players supposed to acquire the levels of plat require to buy and template themselves? You already start out at a Realm Rank disadvantage, a likely skill/DAoC knowledge disadvantage, a social disadvantage by not being known/having a group (everyone seems to think I'm a spy, which is good for some laughs but gets annoying). Now you need to gear up and get plat. What do you do? Perhaps these are just guarded secrets that nobody shares - but I really don't see the ability for people to naturally acquire this amount of platinum as a player paying for a single DAoC subscription unless you are able to attend the OW/Curse raids and thusly charge people high prices for the items. This is what I've done, and it's worked, but only so long as I can actually attend these raids every once and a blue moon. The end result of just about all of these issues seems to be the inevitable conclusion - people are buying platinum from Chinese gold farmers at higher rates, trading GTC codes for in game platinum for people who run bot teams, or just straight out buying items from each other. This is a generally poor look from the outside looking in. If you've been playing for awhile, this likely seems normal/how it is - but it's a bit concerning from other perspectives. Paying a subscription fee for a game this old makes people who don't play it balk - never mind the inevitable reality that you either farm in futility or spend more money elsewhere - some of it not even going to the people running the game itself.

- A tertiary issue, but the player consignment vendors not being able to hold any more gold adds frustration to all of this. Many items that aren't priced ridiculously are on vendors with full balances, thus you can't buy anything from them. Needing to use 25p vendor deeds for everything is also unwieldy - if they aren't going to fix anything - perhaps add in bigger "checks" for people to trade around aside from the mansion deeds?

- Much of the new content isn't able to be enjoyed. Remember those OW and Curse raids? How many of you who care to read the plot/storylines/text boxes actually get to read any of it? When I play with a raid everything is so driven that you have little to no downtime to actually enjoy any of the writing, lore, settings, etc. I know most people don't enjoy PvE - but if I've got to do it, I might as well enjoy whatever I can with it. Every single time these raids are done, you are simply driven through them - no time to enjoy a story line or lore, it mostly just ends up being some gracious raid leader being a benevolent economic vessel for everyone they ferry through. If you fall behind - tough luck. Everyone else has done this fifteen times and they just want item X/Y/Z.

- For certain times of the day, usually PST time, it can be hard/rare/impossible to get some of these done. I need to do OW on some of my characters if for nothing else to be able to farm those OW shrubs - it's pretty much an unknown ETA hoping somebody wants to go back and do OW content some random night I can attend.

- Dueling/Solo Area culture is sort of a toxic shock. Once you walk up it might be understood that you respect fights - but this goes entirely against what DAoC at large has been or is understood to be by people outside the bubble. You let one person continue their fight out of respect, then they farm you. You attack them? You get ganked on by people from two realms who will stop what they're doing to kill you first. If people want to duel, they should honestly be given a system/arena somewhere else and given their own arena to do so. These areas, while cool to have as new landscapes, really present a sort of odd idea. This part is more or less "boo hoo I died in an RvR zone" combined with my personal saltiness. There is merit to being a soloer, but the level of cross realm cooperation that goes on is pretty offputting even when you've given them their demanded respect - they'll still take advantage of whatever they want once they're done and they'll cooperate cross realm to do it. I've learned how to deal with it, but I've seen other returning/newer players have some ""WTF" moments over this.

- Last, and perhaps a bit petty - but of note. While I was doing a raid not long ago the raid got split and wiped. Half went forward, some stayed behind trying to catch one person up who fell behind. I had intended on returning to assist with my group - all of us being newer didn't know the way back entirely so we followed somebody who did. For whatever reason, likely trying to be helpful and nice, a staff member teleported the person my group of newbies was following into the instance with the others. My group of noobs got lost, the people who were left behind in the raid got frustrated because nobody came to help (Note: My group was trying...) and the raid ultimately fractured and people left frustrated. We finished by the seat of our pants, but the damage was sort of done. I'd just like to point out to staff members - when you interfere with the in game world using staff powers, even if you are trying to help and be nice, you can still do harm and cause unintended consequences with your actions... which is why rules generally exist to not interfere unless necessary. Sort of like... Star Trek and the prime directive. Unless it's a bug/code/stuck issue - it's probably best to leave people be.

The reason I post this is mainly because I see that they are pushing for a F2P account system in DAoC which should be a nice boost. I see that they hope that people will come and experience the game and boost population numbers. Ultimately, more people is likely a good thing for all of us. The thing is - if you are going through all the hassle of turning a game that is 15+ years old into a F2P title, there should be some reasonable and clear pathways for these people to catch up or become part of the existing games structure. Currently there are, from my viewpoint, quite a few major hurdles that I believe will turn off many people who might actually come to enjoy DAoC and become part of the community - and for Broadsword, a subscriber. I'm not asking for everything to be made trivialized, but pointing out that it should be reasonably accessible to people who play the game with a single game account, or play at a lower population time. Without clear and attainable ways for people to progress and enjoy the game - they simply aren't going to stick around - whether they are paying $15 for one account, or more for multiples, or for free.

Post edited by Budikah on
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Comments

  • SymSym
    edited April 2018 PM
    I play late night PST as well, and I had to roll primary healer classes so that I could catch on with a good night time RvR guild. I can imagine if I wanted to play DPS I would struggle to get groups at my playtime.

    In terms of plat, the only reliable way for a new player to get plat for templates is to buy GTCs and sell them to those that need them for 250-300 plat per $15 GTC. People like Rhild and others are often interested in buying them. Yes this is on top of a monthly subscription, but it seems like the only way.

    I have gotten over 1 million RPs on my cleric since returning and I have gotten only 60 plat from that.

    I will say that running supply quest at night time gives you 440 gold per 10 mins and more if you have Buggane. Just don’t get killed!

    Also, don’t play stealthers
    Post edited by Sym on
    Symonde (Cleric)
    Symfriar (Friar duh)
    Symsorc (Double duh)
    Sympets (Theurg)
    Symmond (Arms)
    Some random mids and hibs
  • Great post Budikah! This sums up how I feel also. BS has some big hurdles to get over to make this game great again. I did research before i came back and if Solic had not been running his raids i wouldn't be here. I've got lucky and got mostly what i need thru his raids and selling tradeskills items but i don't see new players doing very well with the learning curve Daoc has.
  • edited April 2018 PM
    Warning: TL;DR but I read yours, so you can read mine haha

    I can answer a few, one, the raids are a hot mess. Our son does them for us to get template items because I just cant do it anymore, not to mention its kind of funny how macro groups during PVE raids have become so acceptable, its basically just like nothing anymore to see at least one if not two in any given raid.
    The only solution would be a dedicated raid leader, but then you run into the problem of a vast majority of the community anymore are severely ADD and don't listen and/or act like LoL players. I've tagged along with every bg leader in hib and mid over the last 12 years and its gotten pretty bad. Again, not a game problem, its a people problem. Poor Annamarie is all I'm gonna say about that, I've never ran with her but that woman takes a lot of lip from /reg.. I'm surprised every time I see her log back in actually.

    As for the solo zones, you wont find the duelers during 11pm to around 2am US EST time, we run late cause its me, the husband and our adult son and have too much going on during the day and apparently don't need sleep. As for the 1v1's they are rare around that time and I try really really hard not to hit them, and if we do I feel awful after unless they act like children and rage on us, then I wont feel bad :O ... tbh, during this time zone I think has a pretty decent community. Our son plays during the day EST and its basically as if every bitter person from Mordred ever played during that time haha.. (not all but many) Id say I wouldn't ruin the duelers fun if they were on when I played, but as many as there are I'm sure wed be dead if we tried lol.. The dueling thing does leave a bad taste, gives me a molvik vibe. I used to spend entire nights watching people duel on Alb in Goth when SI came out, but that was our own people (i.e actual duels and not RP farming) I don't count 1v1s as dueling, and seriously respect a fair fight. None of this is a BS problem, again its a player problem. were all pretty divided on the dueling thing.. solo yes, rp farming no.

    Then plats, we run the quests for about two hours a night and sell the items made with shards (start with rubble then boxes, if you don't mind dying take boat to their rubble/boxes, you can almost always get your 10 before they throw you out ;) ...
    I have a few secrets many probably wouldn't want me spilling that you could pm me in game (anyone in Just Because on Mid) about for higher priced shard items, then when I get extra $$ ill buy extra shards /repeat.. I make around 100p+ a week this way. I miss salvaging pict weapons more than anything in this game.. because I love to spend it, but as long as I don't have to template 18 toons I'm good with what I make. Also.. you can do the boxes on EV docks, but its more time consuming and much more frightening when you're only three (four if the husband guilts our daughter into running) I honestly haven't given EV a chance since it became EV, weve always only been two since classic died until our kids got old enough and Agramon was no place for a duo, and I don't like dying ;)

    Inflation, I have to counter that one, only because it feels like yesterday there weren't any items cheap enough to even be sold in housing, remember 300p Meph fangs?? I sell them for 500g lol yes, they don't get template anymore but in all honesty, 200p is really the highest price you will find and those are only for the curse items which no one runs, so I can see why theyre so high. Merchants come around fairly often enough as well lately. The OW items are easy to template with and are mostly super cheap, as for the freezing items, I'm pretty sure most of them are the same stats as the SI pieces (correct me someone if I'm wrong) which are WAY cheaper, but the procs aren't as OP.

    Also, there are a few dedicated template makers that build several versions of each class including super expensive verses cheaper ones, that's always helpful. Pigleto works hard to get the templates up for everyone and doesn't make them secret for plats, we always used Fazz's templates but I think he stopped making them. I build my own, but my people here trust other players over me :p Plus I can build mine around the husbands Skald songs :p Time consuming, took me three weeks to get all the charges I wanted in one template. I seriously commend these folks for what they do.

    OK, didn't mean to go on an on.. at this point, I am convinced the biggest hurdle BS has to deal with is the players, weve got a problem with the ill do unto you as youd do unto me mentality. I don't mean /reg trolls either, they can be ignored, and many are pure entertainment on slow nights (I miss the rantings of Meatwod/hib 2011-13 ish) Pretty sure he was one of the most dedicated players to leave with the siege nerf, cant please everyone.

    But wait theres more! Just kidding, just one more thing.. I'm not savy enough to do the charts and diagrams of population, but I can say that since the birth of Ywain we ran just the two of us with no problems, we died obviously, a lot, but we always logged satisfied.. I don't think id run just us 2 now, maybe its because the action is compacted, maybe its the different times weve played this past year but I have to believe its because more people are playing. The Euro merge was also probably the best thing that could've happened,, imo

    Ive now typed more words on any forum in one post than I have in the last decade since VN died lol, sorry?

    Ok I'm done




    Post edited by Nixy on
    ~Shard Junkie~
    Mother of Trolls
  • Ok one more.. if you do log in to ask me about my super secret shards youll only see three of us, best to try me or Warriored (thats my son, hes occasionally on an sb named Celthian) the husband is Celithian, with an I after Cel (the kid stole his name) and he literally never even looks at his chat and wont answer lol ..
    ~Shard Junkie~
    Mother of Trolls
  • Thanks everyone for your constructive and great feedback, please keep it coming!

    We are currently working on streamlining the various quests and rewards out in RvR, as well as making certain high-end items obtainable through RvR. This should help alleviate the itemisation issues you mentioned. We're always open for ideas here as well, so don't hold back!
    DAoC German Community Admin
    Broadsword Online Games

    Shileahs Camelot-Kompendium - DAoC-Infos auf Deutsch
    Shileah of House Dara, the First of Her name, the Unressed, Master of Stickloss, Queen of Inc-Screams, Purge-Fails and lost Line of Sight, Breaker of Mezz, Mother of Doggo
  • What you guys describe is really accurate.
    I heard a lot of french player returning to the game a bit lost with news templates

    They don't have time nor opportunity to do the whole raids (CURSE or OW) to get all the stuff
    So they try to buy housing
    After that they discover item pricing

    Or they buy GTC, or they quit

  • Most of us hate PvE, here for the rvr, but the PvE is still part of the game.

    Having said that, there is a reason why some of these items are so expensive.

    They are really time consuming to get and time costs money, or plat in this case.

    3 hrs for curse 0-8 2 hrs for 9-10 1 hr for ch6.

    @ minimum wage that's $60 right there.

    Or buy the GTC, and have at it.

    Time sinks worked back in the day, specificity for subscription games, the more time it took do things, the more time you need to buy, but times change, everything is moving towards instant/faster gratification, like it or not. FTP games that entice you to pay money for some of this faster gratification. have more time than money? Ok this works too. with daoc transitioning to FTP, I can see this working, faster XP, coin, rp, etc, I just hope they don't fall into the pay to win category.

    Looking forward to the RVR rewards.
  • Very well said. Lots of my friends that used to play tried to come back and just couldnt cut the time needed to get one toon temped, nevermind multiple toons.

    Also, to the people talking about buying a single GTC to temp a toon haven't built anything from scratch with the newest gear. I'm guessing it's more like 4 timecards per toon atm if you don't have any of the items.

    With that said, my account is still open because I really like this game, I just wish that raiding wasn't the only way to really make enough plat to count towards anything.
  • I recently reactivated, and agree with what you said. I do not have the time playing casually to template a toon that will complete with today's level 50 RvR. I have contemplated on letting my subscription go, but I stopped in CV and having a bit of fun there. I don't have to worry about rr10+ outclassing me with every RA in the book, and templates are easy to make.
  • null
    I also greatly enjoy battlegrounds. I prefer Molvik to CV. I enjoy the relatively even playing field. There are obviously some horribly overpowered classes but its mostly a really good time.

    I find most of the players to be fine. The zerg guilds and zergs are actually a decent time but I think the zerging is making the game worse. When I played in 8man groups 10+ years ago, we all ran only 8, unless the realm needed us. Then we would come together for an epic battle. Ive only been in a couple 8man groups since I've been back and it certainly seems like the burn hard and flame out quick. Everyone expects 170,000rps/night as a measure of progress. I've enjoyed some of the quality fights as well as the rps. However, the greatest feeling of accomplishment comes from massive realm point gains.

    The solo thing blows here. I've found several 1v1s and then I get farmed by other "soloers". It's stupid. I find the solo action in Molvik much more honorable.
  • I just returned after many years a well and find most of what is said to be true. It is hard to get plat to buy anything but I am going to give it more time and see how it goes.
  • My buddy just reactivated and after I talked to him about current prices of things.... he didn't even bother to log in again. It's a bummer. I think I may have scared him with the truth. He wants to play a SB with mine, but I said unless you can do all the OW and Curse quests....prepare to spend 700+ plat for a top of the line temp (Assassin curse sets seem to be way more plat than any other class right now). I was lucky that I had around 500p chilling on my account when I came back... was able to jump back into things. A newer player has no way of making that kind of plat quickly. Depending on when you play it could take weeks to find a decent OW / Curse run as well. Lose/Lose for new players.

    I agree with most of what is said above, and I hope that the changes they are making to let you purchase some of these high end items through RvRing will work out. Needs to come sooner than later though.
    Tral
  • I would also like to chime in as well. I have recently come back and I understand that Broadsword wants to use RVR as way to increase pve gear, money ect. I understand that, but not everything has to be RVR based. BS is ignoring the fact that in order to do a lot of objectives and tasks in rvr, requires a group, that A: is able to complete said objective and B: not get rolled in the process of doing so. if you play a class or spec that isnt considered rvr friendly then you are SOL. but the rub is you need rvr to get items to do rvr. Not to mention the gaggle of rr10's and above to ruin your day.
    Id like them to seperate bgs, not by just level but but by RR as well. with rewards scaling up or down accordingly.
  • I also wish they would make curse able to be done with a fg like ow...
  • I think it's too soon for curse with only 1 group.

  • @Fugo Why? What is gained out of doing Curse with a major raid vs a full group? It's more people to wait around for, deal with DC'ing, dealing with RL issues.

    DAoC PvE doesn't really gain much by scaling up IMO. I don't feel it ever has. It's cool to see thirty or forty people blasting a dragon, but it largely, visually, just looks like a big mess. Due to the age and restrictions on the game - there isn't usually a ton of interesting mechanics involved. I remember in the old days people just whacking collectively at something - missing entirely, or hitting for trivial damage - the end result was to just bomb things with Theurgist/Animists to high hell and break the hitcode or some nonsense. Not exactly riveting entertainment.

    Just spitballing ideas - and some of these are rough...

    - Allow the gear to be bought via PvP, but noting that it's going to be rough for untemplated characters and returning players to reach peak efficiency this way. It's going to take them a bit more work than the existing veterans to get this gear depending on how much you need of whatever currency is used to purchase it. Perhaps PvP quests sort of like the Supplies quest make some sort of sense. This puts people into PvP zones without directly making the objective for new characters in Kings gear to go beat up people they might struggle heavily against.

    - Reduce the OW/Curse campaigns to able to be done by a single full group. If people want hard as nails battlegroup PvE then I'd like to hear their input, and perhaps put that style of raid off to the side with alternative rewards for their efforts that don't so much impact the items stats. Ie; items with cool looks, crafting materials, other visual treats as rewards.

    - This one is totally off the rails; I actually really enjoyed the Curse solo quest where you run around in the dungeon with your NPC companions. It wasn't the greatest thing in the world, and the pathing on the Eldritch pet on Hib is godawful in the dungeon it sends you to first, but if you allow solo/small groups to run through something like this with AI assistance/tanking/whatnot it allows for people to do it at their own pace, with as many people as they can get together, and while it will likely take longer - they'll have a pathway to it.

    Just random ideas. I don't play DAoC to PvE, but I don't *mind* doing PvE when it goes smoothly. My experience doing Curse 9-10 two nights ago was it taking a whole 2hrs and 20mins to complete - we had two or three people DC multiple times, one never came back, another had to go to bed because it took so long to get everyone in the group.

    It's just sort of a mess - and this game has the interesting quirk of being played mostly by older people with kids, families, jobs, commitments - which is, as you said, why you see people trading real life monies for gear one way or another - the economics just make sense. You can go into a dungeon for six hours you don't have, or work six hours and just buy what you need. It's just created an odd system that has seemingly been like this since OW - but if your intent is to put new lifeblood in this game, they sort of need to look upstream somewhere and add in some legitimate shortcuts for people to start gearing up.

    The idea isn't to give **** away or make the entire game trivial - but I think the progression is *really* screwed up as a few people who are new/returning or trying to suggest to friends to return. You can talk people up about DAoC all day and how awesome the game is - but when you hit the point where you mention the costs/times/investment just to even reach even with gear - let alone skill, game knowledge, comfort with your keybinds and controls - it's brutal.

    My hope @Lea_Broadsword is that when you guys implement whatever this new system is, that you look at it from the perspective of a single account newer player and ask yourself if it's reasonable to do, enjoyable to do, and will make them want to continue playing and hopefully paying. Otherwise I suspect a half-arsed system that still leaves people behind gear-wise is only going to be a band aid on what to me, is a big problem with this game in acquiring new blood for the battlefield.
  • Budikah wrote: »
    @Fugo Why? What is gained out of doing Curse with a major raid vs a full group? It's more people to wait around for, deal with DC'ing, dealing with RL issues.

    DAoC PvE doesn't really gain much by scaling up IMO. I don't feel it ever has. It's cool to see thirty or forty people blasting a dragon, but it largely, visually, just looks like a big mess. Due to the age and restrictions on the game - there isn't usually a ton of interesting mechanics involved. I remember in the old days people just whacking collectively at something - missing entirely, or hitting for trivial damage - the end result was to just bomb things with Theurgist/Animists to high hell and break the hitcode or some nonsense. Not exactly riveting entertainment.

    Just spitballing ideas - and some of these are rough...

    - Allow the gear to be bought via PvP, but noting that it's going to be rough for untemplated characters and returning players to reach peak efficiency this way. It's going to take them a bit more work than the existing veterans to get this gear depending on how much you need of whatever currency is used to purchase it. Perhaps PvP quests sort of like the Supplies quest make some sort of sense. This puts people into PvP zones without directly making the objective for new characters in Kings gear to go beat up people they might struggle heavily against.

    - Reduce the OW/Curse campaigns to able to be done by a single full group. If people want hard as nails battlegroup PvE then I'd like to hear their input, and perhaps put that style of raid off to the side with alternative rewards for their efforts that don't so much impact the items stats. Ie; items with cool looks, crafting materials, other visual treats as rewards.

    - This one is totally off the rails; I actually really enjoyed the Curse solo quest where you run around in the dungeon with your NPC companions. It wasn't the greatest thing in the world, and the pathing on the Eldritch pet on Hib is godawful in the dungeon it sends you to first, but if you allow solo/small groups to run through something like this with AI assistance/tanking/whatnot it allows for people to do it at their own pace, with as many people as they can get together, and while it will likely take longer - they'll have a pathway to it.

    Just random ideas. I don't play DAoC to PvE, but I don't *mind* doing PvE when it goes smoothly. My experience doing Curse 9-10 two nights ago was it taking a whole 2hrs and 20mins to complete - we had two or three people DC multiple times, one never came back, another had to go to bed because it took so long to get everyone in the group.

    It's just sort of a mess - and this game has the interesting quirk of being played mostly by older people with kids, families, jobs, commitments - which is, as you said, why you see people trading real life monies for gear one way or another - the economics just make sense. You can go into a dungeon for six hours you don't have, or work six hours and just buy what you need. It's just created an odd system that has seemingly been like this since OW - but if your intent is to put new lifeblood in this game, they sort of need to look upstream somewhere and add in some legitimate shortcuts for people to start gearing up.

    The idea isn't to give **** away or make the entire game trivial - but I think the progression is *really* screwed up as a few people who are new/returning or trying to suggest to friends to return. You can talk people up about DAoC all day and how awesome the game is - but when you hit the point where you mention the costs/times/investment just to even reach even with gear - let alone skill, game knowledge, comfort with your keybinds and controls - it's brutal.

    My hope @Lea_Broadsword is that when you guys implement whatever this new system is, that you look at it from the perspective of a single account newer player and ask yourself if it's reasonable to do, enjoyable to do, and will make them want to continue playing and hopefully paying. Otherwise I suspect a half-arsed system that still leaves people behind gear-wise is only going to be a band aid on what to me, is a big problem with this game in acquiring new blood for the battlefield.

    Man another great post! BUDIKAH FOR PRESIDENT!
  • This guy is wicked smaht!
  • I would like Curse to be nerfed to be doable with 1 group, but I think it won't happen till next next patch, just a guess if you prefer
    I agree with you
  • I agree with what have been said.

    I would like to see various ways implemented for players to achieve the best items in the game. I'm generally against items that can only be gained at certain times (Harbinger, Ghostly, Ghost event ring!), it slows down progress and discourages to play the game (pause and wait for the item to be available again).

    I would consider to
    - make curse similar in difficulty to OW -> this is the fastest pve way to get these items + aurulite.
    - PvE Quests (solo and group option) for currency for player that don't want to do any PvE.
    - reuse the old level 48+ Quests that are already in the game. Make them repeatable and add 2-3 of the high end items on each of these. For example the "Ancestral Secrets Quest" where you get "Beaded Resisting Stones" can be modified. Remove most of the old loot and add 2-3 of the new ones like Ghostly medal, medal of honor and so on.

    The idea is that you have a slow but continuous solo way (questing), a fast PvE way (raids with 1-2 groups) or just PvP quests that you do with your main to equip your alt over time.

    Last but not least: fights the ridiculous money inflation:
    - traveling merchants are always up in DF with slightly higher prizes as during events
    - PvP currency can be used to pay
    - prizes are around 15-60p and 5-20p during Events (150p for a returning player is such a slap in the face)
    - ALL items are accessible includes Jack Frost items, curse 9-10, Beliathal items and Ghostly event items.
  • I suggest we wait to make any major gear acquisition changes until we see what the F2P brings. If there's a respectable increase in population, that kinda remedies most of the Curse issues.
  • edited April 2018 PM
    @Ciddire I disagree entirely. Adding and hoping for more fodder/population boost on a seventeen years old game is folly. The design of it doesn't really work for people now, adding in a glut of F2P accounts is, at best, a temporary bandaid to a much larger issue. I do think we will have people joining in, but I suspect the retention rate is going to be on the bleeding edge.

    While yes, F2P players will need to do these quests - they also need to have some reason to stick around and do them in the first place. Throwing new players, free players which will likely have restrictions on them, into this hyper inflated economy will likely end with people coming in with the same complaints as in my OP.

    The entire point of considering fixing/shoring up the progression system is to make things more palatable for the incoming population boost.

    Clean your house before the guests arrive so to speak. Going F2P could be awesome, but if they don't fix up a few things at the same time I feel it'll all come to a rather obvious conclusion.

    New players etc can still do these quests and raids even if they're made to require less numbers. In fact, it just makes it that much more accessible to everybody once you add even more bodies to the pool. The more people playing, progressing, and enjoying themselves the better.
    Post edited by Budikah on
  • Can only echo these sentiments. It’s impossible to do a fresh account these days. I only play as I’m on a caster and able to get away with naff gear. Anything else is off limits.
  • I'd like to see some of these new players stay with us, I think @Budikah has some great points and these are worth listening to. I don't care if I get nerfed a bit, or if my *oooh look how l337 I am cause I've got this gear* status takes a sharp decrease - I want people in this game, enjoying it, who will play RvR and have fun. Cause then I'll have more fun.
  • Fugo wrote: »
    I would like Curse to be nerfed to be doable with 1 group, but I think it won't happen till next next patch, just a guess if you prefer
    I agree with you

    Wouldn't hold your breath, no plans for any new pve campaign, if you want 2nd Tier gear do OW with a full group.
  • i still like my gsv lol
  • Really they just need to remove spellcrafting from the game and redo the epics to be inline with OW/cursed gear. Then make them accessible through rvr. Kill 25 albs, get the feet. Kill 25 mids, get the legs. Take 5 keeps, get the chest and so on. Include jewelry with some useful charges and make everything streamlined. Sounds boring but having everyone on equal footing template wise is a smart move. Theres nothing to do about the gap in realm ranks from 18 years of play but getting smashed from someone who never loses health has to be frustrating to new/returning players
  • I'd like to know what everyone thinks is fair "time in" to get geared up?

    3 months?
  • heres my 2 cents...i just came back to game a few days ago and already have a character with a /bank full of mansion deeds...its not a problem to get money, infact you really have to try to not get money...but also please dont turn this into a F2P model...you can do that with games nowadays but not a game as old as this, its not designed for it and will be the final death stroke for this game...it would turn pay to win and yeah im willing to throw quite a bit of money into it but 80% or so of people wont...they are not gonna want to pay $10 for a single sword and thats the only way a f2p model could work in this type of game, you CANNOT even pay to keep the servers up if its any other model
  • heres my 2 cents...i just came back to game a few days ago and already have a character with a /bank full of mansion deeds...its not a problem to get money, infact you really have to try to not get money...but also please dont turn this into a F2P model...you can do that with games nowadays but not a game as old as this, its not designed for it and will be the final death stroke for this game...it would turn pay to win and yeah im willing to throw quite a bit of money into it but 80% or so of people wont...they are not gonna want to pay $10 for a single sword and thats the only way a f2p model could work in this type of game, you CANNOT even pay to keep the servers up if its any other model

    Either you are really clever and know something about how/where to farm plat that a majority of other people don't or... you got it without actually doing the in game work for it. I've since found a roundabout way to make some money in game, but nothing that is going to fill my entire bank account in a mere few days. Something doesn't add up.
  • Yea please let us know your secret on how to get a vault full of mansion deeds!
  • Here is the Realistic way to gear up quickly, assuming that time = money to you. If you are freeloading then this may not work.

    1. Level character 1-50: 8 hours in the battlegrounds.
    2. Run supplies late at night for CL1-15: 3 hours
    3. Purchase 3 months game time card from mithril store: $40 USD.
    4. Sell game time card for 750 plat in /region. This is the going rate.
    5. Use 750 plat to purchase full template from housing and /region.

    Any comments? Thoughts?
    Symonde (Cleric)
    Symfriar (Friar duh)
    Symsorc (Double duh)
    Sympets (Theurg)
    Symmond (Arms)
    Some random mids and hibs
  • edited May 2018 PM
    Sym wrote: »
    Here is the Realistic way to gear up quickly, assuming that time = money to you. If you are freeloading then this may not work.

    1. Level character 1-50: 8 hours in the battlegrounds.
    2. Run supplies late at night for CL1-15: 3 hours
    3. Purchase 3 months game time card from mithril store: $40 USD.
    4. Sell game time card for 750 plat in /region. This is the going rate.
    5. Use 750 plat to purchase full template from housing and /region.

    Any comments? Thoughts?
    I doubt anyone new to this game will do that or would want to. Yes the bg's and supply runs buth not the timecards.

    Also with the way AngryF said he was obtaining Mansion deeds it's really hard to believe what he says is true and comes close to trolling.
    Post edited by GlissZewks on
  • no not trolling here, sorry it took so long to answer back, been at work...all i did was join my guild in a few OW raids...thats it...just the helms alone go for 100p each, i lvled up a couple of characters at a time, a bot and a main, got 2 OW raids worth, then simply crafted alchemy and started selling alchemy supplies i got from Spindelhalla
  • The question is why not? Most people who play have jobs and families and such, why many many hours when it can be circumvented by spending $40? The main excuse I hear is people are to busy. In that case time = money. Even if it takes 8 hours to get all the plat you need, are you saying that your time isn’t worth $4 an hour of saving.

    It’s a different story if people actually enjoy PvE and actively want to spend time doing it. Or if they don’t have jobs and are free loading off a trust fund, injury settlement, or their parents.
    Symonde (Cleric)
    Symfriar (Friar duh)
    Symsorc (Double duh)
    Sympets (Theurg)
    Symmond (Arms)
    Some random mids and hibs
  • Omg.... Budikah hit the Board. Welcome and i hope you play Hib !! :)


    If i read something like *my playtime is worth xx$/hour* i ask myself...wtf is wrong with you?
    Do you play this game for fun or do you work it like a 2nd job? :)

    I returned to Ywain end of january after a 10y Break (on live) and my toons were from Gareth ( Classic server, so no ToA). 3 month later i have 3 fully templated toons and i did not spent 100% of the time in pve.

    Platin, items etc are only a problem if you want them asap. There are enough ways to make plats without selling gametimecards. If you level a new toon (not the worst option for returning players), following the quest hubs, doing some glass quests and the (for hib) quests around the Corruscating Mine you`ll sit at 20-25p once you hit 50.
    You can do some supply quest for getting CL 15, or you just do Cursed 0-8 and the OW Questchain, both will be enough xp for CL 15 and you need the items/aurulite anyway.
    Farm Doppelgangers, the unidentified shard goes for 1p/each, farm aurulite, trade it in for Bloodseals, use them yourself or sell them for 12-15p/20 seals. Level an alchimist, farm essences and stuff, selling a supremacy for 7p.
    Or join a group within the Hero-Zerg, should be enough for 3-4p/evening. :)

    The only point where you`re really f....if you have a template in mind and missed the events for harbinger, medal of honor etc and/or missed the merchant event.

    And on the F2P thing...i don`t think it will work on the long term. It`ll boom for 2-3 month, until the new players/returning players notice that they`ll run into rr12+ players each day.
    F2P in Daoc without a new Server = Fail ...imho
  • And on the F2P thing...i don`t think it will work on the long term. It`ll boom for 2-3 month, until the new players/returning players notice that they`ll run into rr12+ players each day.
    F2P in Daoc without a new Server = Fail ...imho[/quote]

    I agree, especially when your a rogue type player, you CANNOT compete with all the rr10+...it got better when they got rid of MOS, but its still impossible to do anything as a new 50 stealther
  • I make plenty of plat playing solo on a stealther. Do supply missions when your slow or bored. It takes time but I have made enough to sell GTC's, template a few toons, and have all the goodies. Probably made between 7-9 mithril in my 15+ months here. Some of that came from selling extra OW gear amd random hallowed items. As another mentioned, get alchemy to 1100 (costs 1.5p and about 6-7 hours) and then sell extra sup and celerity pots. You make money fast on this game. People just don't want to expend the effort.
  • There aren't as many high RRs running around as you think there are, most tend to get bored at 12 and start new ones.. Very few named toons during US primetime that I can think of, and even then many of those wont mess with you if you don't want to fight. Plus there's only a handful that are intimidating when paths cross. Can think of maybe 1/4 high RRs that you know for sure you'll /rel to after fighting..I've watched RR 4 toons do crazy damage to much higher realm ranks. Lower realm ranks also have a good shot at completing supply quests because the duelers will almost always leave them be.
    ~Shard Junkie~
    Mother of Trolls
  • And you are sure you are playing the same DAoC on the same server, not on Gaheris?
  • Lol @Stoertebecker! I thought the same thing if you were referring that to @Nixy_N_Celi_xx response. To be fair, he is right in that I don't see tons of RR12+'s and there is a minority of people that will allow solo's to complete their missions. Sadly, I am not one. Sorry, but if I need kills for my solo quest and a low RR comes up he is not going to like me afterwards. However, I have had several low RR's beat me in a fight and I'm sure those low RR's LOVED fighting me and earning my rp's. :)
  • I used to let lowbies go...just to have them add on me later.....so no more mercy. /shrug

    I have around 30 toons that are rr5+. My rl has been very busy over the last 6 months, so I only have ONE toon that is in an updated template, and I have ZERO motivation to template my other toons. PVE is killing the game, not helping. Beating a dead horse here..but no one plays daoc for pve.....just saying.
  • RonELuvv wrote: »
    Lol @Stoertebecker! I thought the same thing if you were referring that to @Nixy_N_Celi_xx response. To be fair, he is right in that I don't see tons of RR12+'s and there is a minority of people that will allow solo's to complete their missions.

    Don`t nail it at rr12+ just because i wrote rr12+. From what i`ve heard rr3-rr4 will be max for new f2p accounts and returning players have to downgrade their toons if they want f2p. ( just rumors, i don`t know if it`s true, but if....)
    So even rr8-10 is high enough. :)
    The best would be a fresh, new server with f2p start. Can`t be that expensive if ppl manage to run a successful private server. There is only 1 problem, noone would be playing on Ywain for a long time. ;)

    @Kat
    ****but no one plays daoc onlyfor pve**** <<< fixed that for you :)
    Without pve DaoC would have died long time ago. 95% of the people i`ve met used to play both, rvr and pve.

  • edited May 2018 PM
    The constant PvE complaints are a joke. It’s not that hard to join raids and get the new gear. I’ve templates over 25 toons with new gear, and it wasn’t that hard or that expensive to do. Never once bought a game time card and sold for plat, what a joke of a suggestion.

    Tbh, you don’t need the newest of the new gear, unless you wanna compete 1 vs 1 (against decent players with new gear). And if you are a hardcore soloer, then put in the TIME to get the gear.

    MMORPG are time sinks, period. You don’t log in and get everything handed to you.

    Get gud.

    -r.ant
    Post edited by DaRedANT on
    Da ant familyDa fly familyDa spider family
    https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/daredant
  • yeah we might as well put in a instant 50 npc, and then a npc with every gear ever made for free...otherwise there will always be whiners, BUT THEN there would be the whiners saying the game has gotten way too easy...cant ever make the fanbase happy
  • yeah we might as well put in a instant 50 npc, and then a npc with every gear ever made for free.

    ...and only 3 classes per realm with access to all abilities :)
  • The limitations we put out on announcement were just a stepping stone, based on feedback and discussions there will be changes to that so please don't consider those the final definitive list, they're not.

    And will include returning players, not just new.

    There'll be more news and details on this later in the year.


    DAoC Community Lead
    Broadsword Online Games
  • that used to be what pendragon was for, before the server was wiped and the population left...test everything there and change accordingly and the the final product went onto servers
  • Regarding doing raids - it's all based on your schedule and whoever runs the raids. On Hibernia literally every raid Solic runs is on a workday for me. Not his fault. Either somebody else runs it (rare) or I try and run it having only done it twice... which uh...yeah, it's worth a shot eventually.

    I've got zero issue doing these raids and doing some PvE for gear. I just can't find the people during my playtimes to do what I need.

    Buying gametime codes might work for some, but it's not a natural progression and anybody else would balk at the idea of having to buy a 15+ year old game, then pay a sub, then pay to progress further in the game.

    There are ways to make money, but they aren't exactly visible or entirely clear to a new player.

    Saying "git gud" doesn't do **** when people literally do not have a clear picture of what to even do to "git gud". Your free to have your own opinions, but some of them aren't going to do anything to help retain returning or newer players or teach them WTF to do to be self sufficient.
  • And you are sure you are playing the same DAoC on the same server, not on Gaheris?

    I'm sure I'm not playing on Gaheris, I'm also sure that you're most likely referring to the community of one time zone. I've stated in previous posts how different each time zone is from the other.. You might see things differently. Also from my observations there are not that many high RR's that are worth fearing. You guys obviously aren't seeing what I'm seeing ... During mid day EST around 4 or 5 pm i see like 10 or more duelers hanging around Trelle, I don't play these hours but I see it on my sons screen .. I'm not referring to regular players letting lowbies go, just the duelers and I don't see them just picking off warders

    As for soloers questing for their 20k, I wouldn't expect them to let anyone go.. Kill em all imo I just know it leaves me feeling awful after running down 2's and 3's just trying to get their boxes .. Obviously it happens, but if someone /crys or begs they will almost always be left alone by me at least ... Only ones that are kill on sight are ones that rage when you kill them .. Sore losers deserve no mercy
    ~Shard Junkie~
    Mother of Trolls
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