Scout rr5 ability

Fateboi

My suggestion is to reconsider the Scout rr5 ability. Previously it was shield trip now changed to increased range and NS ability with standard shot.

When comparing within our class vs the Hunter or Ranger it is a considerably weak ability with a short duration. Unlike the actual last ability which was centered on shield this one is more focused on keep defense.

Archers the Anti Assasin I submit for discussion to our community for ideas on how to revamp the Scout RR5.

GL

Sovereign

Don't forget it's also an NS cure for the scout. It is definitely situational as it won't provide any help vs melee classes. Perhaps it could work similar to the ranger RR5 where it provides some type of melee benefit. But I'm also torn because stealth zergs are already plenty strong and don't really need any help.

Pigleto

Well, I've heard people complain now about the scout RR5. There was a thread about the ranger rr5; they want their old one back. And I'm not a big fan of the hunter rr5 either. I miss those snakes on my hunter because speed burst and phase shift were never intended as an escape tool for an archer to get away. You can easily counter it with ichor or if you are poisoned you have to use purge, speed burst, then phase shift otherwise you go no where. If they are complaining that archers have too many escape tools then why not upgrade the forest phantom so that it works like snakes, shield trip or desperate archer. Give each of the archer classes an escape tool where you don't have to waste phase shift to get away.

Pigleto

Furthermore, I'd approve, being an archer myself, if they would make mastery of stealth an RA again where you would have to spend points. But I also believe that archers need better defenses especially if they are expected to melee. There would always be a trade off between offensive RAs whether archery or melee and then I'd like to see a defensive RA like dodger put in to increase the chance to evade because evade 3 on a hunter isn't really that great and I sure can't stand toe to toe against an assassin. And I would be fine spending points in mastery of stealth again.

Teehehe

Didn't read most of this thread but I just wanna say I love the scout RR5. Get range pop it shoot assassin he cant blur to me/DD or javelin of flame me and if he tries to run I have over bolt range distance to finish him off. It pulses continuously curing NS. Nearisght other achers so they cant shoot me while i peg them down. Its definitely an archer RR5 while the other classes are melee oriented.

Fateboi

Scout TL was a Highlander Melee specd for the longest time, interesting how Scouts fair in melee va their Archer counterparts.

RonELuvv

I personally LOVE the new ranger/hunter RR5's. Other than @Kat and a few other hunters I have not heard any complaints from rangers or hunters in regarda to their new RR5'S. As far as the scouts RR5 is concerned, I thinks it's very powerful in the right situations. When you have have multiple scouts ita very nice, and as @Teehehe pointes out, it even has its uses in 1vs1 against non caster classes as they cant use charges, cl casts, blur, or other abilities that prevent a scout from kiting and using a bow. I would agree that its not as "powerful" as ranger/hunter RR5's but still quite powerful in its own way.

Kat

Not really sure why rangers would complain about their OP rr5, and PLENTY of hunters hated the rr5. I was getting many messages daily. Since then, some have quit, some have adapted, some changed classes. As I have said, it basically made sniper/bc spec sub-par. This thread is for scout rr5, and I try not to bore everyone with my hatred of the rr5.....but I was mentioned. so.../shrug.

I do find it interesting that BS has made basically killed the pure sniper.

Pigleto

hunters are not meant to melee. They have poor defenses. Unless they give them dodger as a RA, theyre rr5 is useless. I haven't used it since I've been back for the last week playing my hunter.

RonELuvv

It wasn't meant as an insult @Kat, I was just pointing out that other than you and a few others I have not heard many complaints about hunter/ranger RR5 on the forums. Was also pointing out that all 3 ranged stealther RR5's are powerful in the right situation.

Ranger RR5 is hugely powerful against pet classes but very easily avoided/managed by players. Most won't stay and fight in the area and will break los and heal when you pop it. So really only powerful against pet classes and many of those still manage to kite back and call a new pet.

Hunter RR5 is very powerful if you use mele at all. Disease on every hit, swing at cap speed, AND you move at 115% speed. Not very strong on sniper spec as you can really only use it as a minor kite ability vs non-caster toons.

Scout RR5 is very powerful vs casters/ranged stealthers. Also extremely powerful when you have multiples in a group as you can kite back and shoot everything down. Very weak against straight mele classes but does allow prevention of them using throw weapon/cl casts/charges from interrupting. Also very strong in a keep defense.

So all 3 are very strong in certain situations and virtually worthless in others.

Fateboi

Mind taking the hunter and ranger discussion to a diff thread.

Scout RR5 won’t help when engaged in melee Range. As the anti assasin or Assasin Hunter is there a way to augment the ability to bring it on par with what our counterparts received?

Stoertebecker

Who said that a scout, hunter or ranger is a anti-assassin class? The voices in your head?
Their main weapon is the bow, so they are archers.
That means fight from range whenever possible.

We (2 Ns + 4 rangers) had a nice fight vs 1 fg scouts at amg last friday. Wiped the floor with them without any loss. Guess what, none of this smart archers used their rr5.
Not to mention that they were never seen again, guess they were sticking to a keep or so....

You`re right, the scout rr5 is pretty useless if you don`t use it. Even the ranger rr5 is useless if a ranger don`t use it.

Clearly a l2p issue

Huehuaehue

Stoertebecker wrote: »

Clearly a l2p issue

oh snap, bang bang !

Fateboi

Stoertebecker wrote: »

Who said that a scout, hunter or ranger is a anti-assassin class? The voices in your head?

We (2 Ns + 4 rangers) had a nice fight vs 1 fg scouts at amg last friday. Wiped the floor with them without any loss. Guess what, none of this smart archers used their rr5.

Clearly a l2p issue

Stealth revamp Archers are supposed to hunt/kill Assasins (tx *Kujii)

Please tell me more stories about your OP'd AF Ranger wiping the floors that was awesome...

Bruh

Huehuaehue

all the scouts in the place with style and grace know rr5 aint nothin but an unneeded thang !

Stoertebecker

Fateboi wrote: »

Stoertebecker wrote: »

Who said that a scout, hunter or ranger is a anti-assassin class? The voices in your head?

We (2 Ns + 4 rangers) had a nice fight vs 1 fg scouts at amg last friday. Wiped the floor with them without any loss. Guess what, none of this smart archers used their rr5.

Clearly a l2p issue

Stealth revamp Archers are supposed to hunt/kill Assasins (tx *Kujii)

Please tell me more stories about your OP'd AF Ranger wiping the floors that was awesome...

Bruh

The class design was brought into DAoC by Mythic, not Bs.
Never heared MJ (or archer Teamleads) saying that killing assassins is the only role for an archer, doh.

And there is always another option if you don`t want to use ur tools...summon stealth zerg...but wait.

Nice vids @Huehuaehue

Huehuaehue

rest in peace scout rr5 !



i don't always flop and purge mez poison to eat a full pa/cd stun coming out at 10% and having to blow all cd's in the first 5 seconds of the fight while being out ranked and out numbered, but when i do we win anyway !

dat rr5 to buy time for the homies vanish debuff too end and looping back around to put them down tho ;p

Fateboi

Archers are supposed to hunt/killl Assasins per the major class overhaul known as stealth revamp.

The current Scout rr5 does not support this, or match up when compared to the other realms Archers.

Stoertebecker

Did read the patch notes, can`t find anything about the new archer definition as a assassin hunter.

17y DAoC and i played it 17y the wrong way, i always thought me and my archers were supposed to kill everything that i`m able to. Damn, i was so wrong....

RonELuvv

Actually it was noted several times by both john @ bs and prior to even with the original revamp after ToA with mew frontiers amd new ra's that ranged stealthet were supposed to be treated as anti-sins. I don't have the quotes but others have posted them in the past. Sin's do better againat most visi's and ranged stealthers do better against sins @Stoertebecker.

I will agree 100% that scout RR5 doesn't do much vs a sin @Fateboi. If you can diatance it may prevent a blur with the ns, or it might help mitigate a shades casts but other than that it is pretty worthless against a sin since most times you will be close when engaging.

Amp_Phetamine

Stoertebecker wrote: »

Did read the patch notes, can`t find anything about the new archer definition as a assassin hunter.

17y DAoC and i played it 17y the wrong way, i always thought me and my archers were supposed to kill everything that i`m able to. Damn, i was so wrong....

Yeah, actually John clearly stated, as others have pointed out, that with the most recent stealther revamp archers were being altered to perform as assassin hunters (hence the addition of track, MoS being removed from sins and kept with archers, root shot and bola shot, etc.).

Stoertebecker

Amp_Phetamine wrote: »

Stoertebecker wrote: »

Did read the patch notes, can`t find anything about the new archer definition as a assassin hunter.

17y DAoC and i played it 17y the wrong way, i always thought me and my archers were supposed to kill everything that i`m able to. Damn, i was so wrong....

Yeah, actually John clearly stated, as others have pointed out, that with the most recent stealther revamp archers were being altered to perform as assassin hunters (hence the addition of track, MoS being removed from sins and kept with archers, root shot and bola shot, etc.).

Yep, and all other classes are immun to archery shots...sure. What a bs...

Amp_Phetamine

Stoertebecker wrote: »

Amp_Phetamine wrote: »

Stoertebecker wrote: »

Did read the patch notes, can`t find anything about the new archer definition as a assassin hunter.

17y DAoC and i played it 17y the wrong way, i always thought me and my archers were supposed to kill everything that i`m able to. Damn, i was so wrong....

Yeah, actually John clearly stated, as others have pointed out, that with the most recent stealther revamp archers were being altered to perform as assassin hunters (hence the addition of track, MoS being removed from sins and kept with archers, root shot and bola shot, etc.).

Yep, and all other classes are immun to archery shots...sure. What a bs...

Lol

Sepphiroth75

Even thou the hunter rr reduces taeget melee effectiveness by 25% i would find the shape change annoying. As for the scouts i thought the nearsight and extended range on bow shots to be pretty cool. Then again i dont play a scout so it may seem cool in theory

Sovereign

Sepphiroth75 wrote: »

Even thou the hunter rr reduces taeget melee effectiveness by 25% i would find the shape change annoying. As for the scouts i thought the nearsight and extended range on bow shots to be pretty cool. Then again i dont play a scout so it may seem cool in theory

Like many other RR5's, it's situationally cool and effective, which is not a negative IMO and goes towards balance.