28/11/2019 (euro time) rvr (anna and herorius time)

today we had 3 sieges against herorius.

i was with anna bg and anna was unwilling to go defend glen / arv, but in each siege i made it clear that i (my group) was porting out from anna bg to go defend our keeps. other people in anna bg did the same. first siege in glenlock, we lost. second siege in arv, anna actually came to the defense too (probably because his whole bg deserted him to go defend with me) and we drove of herorius from Arv. i'm not sure we won as we were having way more casualties than herorius until one moment that herorius took serious casualties, and i have this strange idea that herorius rewarded us a 'win' by retreating. but it was a huge morale boost for midgard.

but what i learned is that midgard can no longer defend a lord room after the warlock level 50 pbaoe nerf. hib already over the mid lord room before last patch with powerdrains and the tank train. one chanter or eldritch just kills the whole midgard pbaoe stack now after a static tempest. and there sure are more eldritches and enchanters out there now.

last pre nerf warlocks made the lord room defense at least hard for for herorius, but he still won, but it was worth it for both sides, long fight with lots of rp for both sides. now the midgard lord room is just a walkover. no way to defend it.

the times we 'drive of' herorius are BEFORE he breaks the gates (once again i suspect he just retreats to improve our morale, to actually have something to fight in the next encounters). unless we have the irc coming to the rescue, if herorius doesn't back off before the outer gate does down, we lose.
Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
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Comments

  • A decent strategy is to just let him PVE the realm down. No rps, no fun. Well... i wouldnt speak for him, but for lots of his minions there is a reason to follow. Stop giving them a reason to follow.

    Relics really mean nothing. Not when Hero can zerg them down every single day. Its a shame to get to that point, but over time it may change things.
  • SMs have the 425 delve PBAOE and it works great when bombing with several. Saying that you can't defend because of a nerf to the Warlock PB when Mids have access to the same PB as the other realms doesn't make any sense to me. This is definitely a play style issue from my perspective. Refusing to adapt will just continue the trend. May as well take Sleepwell's advice and just let Hero PvE keeps until he logs.
  • edited November 29 PM
    ...
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • edited November 29 PM
    Don't even need to read to guess its about Warlock PB. This is what happens when Dev team overbuff something, even if by mistake, take it away and people seriously think it was completely fine.

    Regardless, Muy, I do get how you feel, but even if you make a post every day, no ability will fix a community issue (mid bgs vs hero). It just creates more problems everywhere else from solo to 8 man, and as you seen, hero will just adapt, get number advantage and make people work together, and wipe the low effort mids anyway.

    Maybe start small, and get the toons that work best against them, and spec MLs and RAs to compete. Even that seems completely unlikely scenario with given attitude of many. If you care set up assist nuke groups and try to take them out that way, make moc PB teams, even 1 group adapting can make huge difference in a random BG. Even I failed to do that in BG scene, because most just QQd not wanting to play the right toons/specs to compete more efficiently. Good luck trying.
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • edited November 29 PM
    Muylae wrote: »
    last pre nerf warlocks made the lord room defense at least hard for for herorius, but he still won, but it was worth it for both sides, long fight with lots of rp for both sides. now the midgard lord room is just a walkover. no way to defend it.

    Agreed I was there at least w/the Lock pbaoe'ing with the "new level 50 pbaoe" it was somewhat of a defense when Hero made it inside and attempted to push.
    He is making a few points Hib ST vs Mid ST hmmm all of those BD's who are playing right? Wrong, their pets are worthless on EV and worthless in a keep defense situation.

    I feel like the point is realm balance not balancing one class vs. each other. Looking back into the past 3+ years of "balance" you have to balance RvR in the grand terms of realm vs. realm. Right now Hero can't be stopped due to his sheer numbers and the wall climbing fiasco.

    Move climb walls into an RA and make the RUT 15/10/5 minutes. Hero and Vamps pour over the walls, and the dementia spec'd vamps are insanely resilient at even the lowest RR's.

    Post edited by Fateboi on
  • Even though warlock pbaoe was broke, and we all knew it wouldn't last, that weekend was some of the most enjoyable old school daoc I'd had in years.

    Wall climbers were dying in the courtyard, confused that by their lack of omnipotence. The lord room was impenetrable except by phase shift, ST or twf. It was amazing. Those fights were great. Fury tanks died instead of forever powerleak and fight over.

    But the question I've gotta ask is if Midgard had the numbers Hibernia gera, would it have been justified to have such strong uninterruptable pbaoe in game? No. It wouldn't be. So therfore it shouldn't be in game just because Mids are on the hind t!t.

    Now the fact all this happened without even a patch note or apology from BS was their typical ham-fisted management of the game. And they deserve no credit. But it does give some insights into a change which could be made if they wanted to give underpopulated defenders a chance to be competitive.
  • @Fateboi
    Don't discredit hero though, he is popular because of his laid-back style, and consistency. Also keep in mind some in his BGs are willing to play accordingly to BG gameplay, which most mids refuse (RA/ML/Classwise). He has a simple plan which works well because they play accordingly.

    He isn't immortal by any means, mid BGs scored wins too regardless who led, it's not impossible, it may be disheartening, but blaming those who does more for the win isn't fair. Can call for any hib nerf, mid buff, just as a bugged/OPed warlock PB has shown, some are more willing to adjust, and he will keep crushing mids regardless what change people gonna QQ for.

    Wonder why Mid just keep losing BG leaders? Everyone can step up and try to deal with people, it's not easy. Maybe one day there be a leader that can motivate players better then past leaders including me to deal with this issue. I don't know Perf on US times, he might be one of them I certainly don't know. I and many more lost their patience.
  • I'm just surprised Muylae didn't start his post by "As being a R13 Warlock, [...]. But I am saying that in all modesty, and not because I have a R13 lock, R13 sav and R12 wizard. No, I am too modest to say these things".

  • And by the way, why are mids always crying about nerfs all the time. Heretics got a nerf to their ae ramp snare and I didn't see a single tic start crying about how useless they are.

    Champs, reavers and skalds got a nerf to their MCL instant spell, didn't see them start crying all over the boards.

    I didn't see a lot of assassins crying over their 15th nerf in a row.

    PW necros got their WS nerfed by 10% and their dots got wrecked, didn't see any "OMG NECROS ARE SO BAD BOOHOO" threads.

    All you see on these forums are midgardians crying about nerfs to midgard, and Brut asking for changes so that his zerglings can roll their face on their keyboards and perform well.
  • Herorius doesn't let mids win by retreating. Experience has taught when a prudent hasty withdrawal is best. The closest he comes to "herorius rewarded us a 'win'" are the "handicap" matches where he does not take a keep tower so more enemies have the opportunity to port in to defend. Lately, that has caused many hasty and prudent retreats.
  • I think the issues is the perma healing that can be done with no fear of going oop. That broke this game years ago.
  • I am kinda confused how Hib PBAOE actually manages to get their spells off against Mid. Midgard, the realm that not only has the ae stun, but also Bonedancers can ae-interrupt at range.

    Have you tried not being bad at the game?
  • Cartoan wrote: »
    Herorius doesn't let mids win by retreating. Experience has taught when a prudent hasty withdrawal is best. The closest he comes to "herorius rewarded us a 'win'" are the "handicap" matches where he does not take a keep tower so more enemies have the opportunity to port in to defend. Lately, that has caused many hasty and prudent retreats.

    I'd say he's doing it (not taking towers) lately in an attempt to expect any defense at all. Mids are reluctant/hesitant, or completely reject the idea of defending just to feed rps.

    More often than not lately, Mids are just not playing that game.

    You're right. Hero doesnt let mids win by retreating. He can win by sheer numbers alone. As of late, even the Annae bg has said its not worth it. If i had the funds, it might be worth it to offer 10p to each of the remaining mids who do attempt to defend (@300 plat for the 30 or so) to "not" defend. Lets all hop over to hib and catch a ride on the Hero train. PVE the keeps down, tolerate the boredom for about 1 to 2 hours, then let population regulate on its own
  • Gavner wrote: »

    Maybe start small, and get the toons that work best against them, and spec MLs and RAs to compete. Even that seems completely unlikely scenario with given attitude of many. If you care set up assist nuke groups and try to take them out that way, make moc PB teams, even 1 group adapting can make huge difference in a random BG. Even I failed to do that in BG scene, because most just QQd not wanting to play the right toons/specs to compete more efficiently. Good luck trying.

    Asatruar
  • edited November 29 PM
    Gavner wrote: »

    Wonder why Mid just keep losing BG leaders? Everyone can step up and try to deal with people, it's not easy. Maybe one day there be a leader that can motivate players better then past leaders including me to deal with this issue. I don't know Perf on US times, he might be one of them I certainly don't know. I and many more lost their patience.

    People during EU mid don't want to form groups I've found, which is the main issue. I think EU Mid just needs more group leaders to step up and PUG. Get more people setting up assist macros, knowing their positioning, and getting proper support in group. The defenders are just running around doing their own thing nuking whoever by themselves with no stun. Then most "elite" groups or groups that consider them decent jump off the back b/c they see this happening and don't have the patience to show people slowly over time.
    Post edited by Dale_Perf on
    Asatruar
  • edited November 29 PM
    It’s Heros and Vamps pouring over the walls. Not really an amazing strategy sorry @Gavner

    Oh but Albs and Mids have similar classes that can climb right? Oh wait they sure don’t. Minstrel would get smoked, no Uber magic resists to save them like the Vamps. Savages can spec for it but they placed it so high that no savage will...

    Simple fix remove climb walls and make it an RA with a 15/10/5 min RUT. Saves you the hassle of another round of “class balance”

    GL
    Post edited by Fateboi on
  • The problem when you buff one side or nerff the other do to numbers or more skillee poeple is that when the tids turn makeing the other the least power is that now they will be far worse off then you are. Because you will now outnumber then and be more powerful.

    So cant just buff a sude because you keep losing just need to play better

    By they way that catapult volly works the best killls like 10 at the same time if done right and then thats when you push out to hit
  • No class changes need to be made to beat hero. This is folly. What’s needed is more community leaders stepping up, running groups, and creating a decent community. Can’t even get a group spamming for 20 minutes during EU prime and everybody is afraid to start one. Also doesn’t help during that time most people just log their hibs because the hib bg “is so much fun” rolling 10-15 defenders.

    Stop the calls for class changes, let’s just form up some groups and communicate. It’s certainly not a balance issue, just play US prime and you’ll see it’s not a class issue.
    Asatruar
  • 1) Lord Room holds have always flopped by most BGs. It's easy to push past the PBAE and kill healers/ranged in the back of the room/roof. (Especially with tank heavy BG) While their healers just free cast heals from the safety of balcony/bottom floor.

    2)Hero hitting keeps when there is an active mid BG is perfectly fine and you shouldn't use the "Starvation" strat. You should take your BG and defend your keeps. Promote action for all realms. Although I do agree with that strat if there is no BG to oppose him.

    3) Warlock became overly powerful and definitely needed to be toned back down. There is no reason to buff them further. I would still pick warlock for PBAE over any other class right now. Warlock has so much utility if you play/spec properly.

    4) Mids have always been the worst at assembling defenses and BGs lol nothing new.
    Impounded - Warrior__________Gimpound - Champion
    Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
    Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator

    Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743

    >Daoc Videos<
  • what are the proper rvr warlock specs ??
  • Lol for a bg go full 50 hex
  • Question since it's been forever:
    If you endo tap a tank, how many power taps can he get off?
  • You need 4+ tanks endo tapping together to prevent other tanks from power tapping. Myrhirian End Regen destroyed endurance management so one tank spamming Sappling Strike does nothing.
  • KoeKoe
    edited December 3 PM
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    SMs have the 425 delve PBAOE and it works great when bombing with several. Saying that you can't defend because of a nerf to the Warlock PB when Mids have access to the same PB as the other realms doesn't make any sense to me. This is definitely a play style issue from my perspective. Refusing to adapt will just continue the trend. May as well take Sleepwell's advice and just let Hero PvE keeps until he logs.

    What two mid classes have access to 425 delve pbaoe like chanter/eld or wiz/cab? Did I miss that somewhere? There's like maybe 1 lvl 50 sm online at any given point and they are usually in an 8man.
    Post edited by Koe on
  • KoeKoe
    edited December 3 PM
    Basically what I get from this thread is mid needs more people and mids need to organize and defend. None of these posts address what I've observed which is that trying to do this ends up being a massive rp donation to hero/hibs in which mids don't get much if any rps.

    So, "Try harder" is what you are saying if you say Mid just needs to be better organized and well defended. The simple fact I've witnessed is that as a lone player it is much easier for me to log in and defend on alb or hib and collect rps- any time of day, than on Mid. While that's all fine and dandy- as is ignoring Hero so he goes away, both of those strategies will end up causing people to find a different game, not change their game style.
    Post edited by Koe on
  • Mids have the population during EU time. They just need to learn to work together and use the classes they have. No single person is going to turn the tide but it only takes one to get the groove going. Start groups. Build them for a particular purpose (bombing, caster train, melee train, etc). Be consistent and you'll play with familiar faces. Don't succumb to the bystander effect and start taking action.

    Mid is not a weaker realm by any means. Sure, they don't have two 425 delve PBAOE classes but why would that stop anyone from playing the one that has it? SM caster groups work really well in all aspects of the game. Melee trains are money on Mid but I only see them during US prime. THAT is a play style choice, not a balance problem.
  • Nobody is going stormlord on Mid and more need to play tank trains or SM trains during EU prime. Play style choices again.
    Asatruar
  • Some of the EU hibs should switch to mid, if they can. Otherwise theres not much hope.
  • I'd suggest the opposite :wink: . With the realm bonuses gone (flat rate now), theres no need to do that. Just have everyone flip and join Hero and the Bunny for 2 hours of keep taking fun.

    @Impounded might disagree with my tactics, but he did agree that if theres no bg or at least enough to resist, then its ludicrous to feed him more rps. As someone has stated, check out LW rps. Looks like the hib Hero bg is still feasting on something. Wanna put someone on a diet?, cut off their food supply....
  • Maybe 2 weeks ago, Anna bg still had enough people to defeat hero.
    what happened?
  • Kroko wrote: »
    Maybe 2 weeks ago, Anna bg still had enough people to defeat hero.
    what happened?

    Constant dodging and folding, no tank trains in BG to push and he tries to push on hero bg with all casters.
    Asatruar
  • Thats a problem when Anna plays a caster.

    Nevertheless, some hibs should switch to mid, otherwise there is no action.
  • BS removed the incentive to play the underpopulated realms. Population imbalance isnt a concern for people anymore since the incentive has been removed. Others have stated the obvious. Its easier to join the predominately superior Herorius Zerg (superior if by nothing other than 50% more people), than it is to flip and try to create action by playing another realm.

    BS doesnt really have a concern about it. The realm switch timer was an attempt to inject some form of penalty for flipping, but they caved and reduced the time so much that it doesnt really affect anyone. BS also doesnt seem to care that their playerbase is not very happy about the lack of action (unless you consider one realm being extremely overpopulated on a daily basis during Hero's zerg time). I still feel like this was the main reason that they removed the realm bonus window, or showing/giving the underdog realm a population bonus. Not many would consider logging into the underpopulated realm even with a 100% population bonus to fight vs the Hero zerg during this time. Its not worth it.

    And to the naysayers, yes, im aware its been like this forever. Yes, im aware that its not impossible to beat anyone at this game given the right scenario or mindset. I'm also aware of how easy it is to play the game casually... join a severely overpopulated zerg/realm at a given time and reap the benefits of /stick 1111. At any given time, i can see who has the advantage... log out.. Determine when my 15 minutes would be up.. go grab a drink.. hit the restroom... and log back into the overpopulated realm to join the rest of the sheep.
  • Realm timers won't help thought, they are restrictive and favor joining the overpop realm. If you had a 4 hour realm timer, would you take the chance to be on the losing side? No, you would immediately join the winning side, making that situation worse.
  • Whats youre suggestion then Shoke.

    I'm not saying realm timers would help. I'm giving my theory of why they reduced it to 15 minutes.

    My suggestion is still to refuse to feed the Gremlin. Starvation probably wont work. But im all for jumping on the bandwagon and riding the Hero train (when i get to play during this time period). Some will say i am only making the situation worse. But it has to be apparent by now.. .its not going to change the way it is currently.. Look at Hero zerg RPS. They are still pretty good. The reason they remain inflated isnt due to the amount of people they kill. Its mainly RP keep bonus. You have to remove the incentive. Its the crack house in the bad neighborhood.... burn it down... or leave it there. Why anyone expects different results baffles me.
  • Half the keep capture / defense bonuses and bring back the underpopulation bonus to provide some incentive. The former may not do much but the latter should never have been removed in the first place. BS seems to be slowing down at making hot fixes which doesn't bode well for the remainder of the year.
  • @Sleepwell
    What is especially the problem with hero zerg? Do you have a problem with other zergs too or just the hero zerg?

    Yea, they should bring back the underpop bonus. Dont know why it was removed.
  • I have zero problem with it. I just don't see any reason to fight it when fighting over insurmountable odds is futile (no matter which side you're on). I say join it, rather than fight it. Population will work itself out when the fun of pve'ing all keeps green wears off. This could be said for any realm that has an imbalance, but i havent seen any realm with such a drastic swing in population or participation exist.

    I am suggesting solutions to deal with it. Other zergs typically receive some kind of resistance, but in this case (at least since EC came out), resistance is non existent.

    I play primarily during US prime time and primarily run in the MID BG. There is typically resistance from Rescu BG or from several Hib groups that voltron and provide good defense or action.
  • Impounded wrote: »
    1) Lord Room holds have always flopped by most BGs. It's easy to push past the PBAE and kill healers/ranged in the back of the room/roof. (Especially with tank heavy BG) While their healers just free cast heals from the safety of balcony/bottom floor.

    2)Hero hitting keeps when there is an active mid BG is perfectly fine and you shouldn't use the "Starvation" strat. You should take your BG and defend your keeps. Promote action for all realms. Although I do agree with that strat if there is no BG to oppose him.

    3) Warlock became overly powerful and definitely needed to be toned back down. There is no reason to buff them further. I would still pick warlock for PBAE over any other class right now. Warlock has so much utility if you play/spec properly.

    4) Mids have always been the worst at assembling defenses and BGs lol nothing new.

    3) WHY would you take a warlock pbaoe over any other pbaoe class ? what's the spec you mean with all that utility you are talking about ? i can assure you that right now, my ice wiz is way better than my warlock. my ice wiz does way better single target, pbaoe and ranged AE than the warlock. then again, it's not hard to do better ranged AE damage than a pbaoe lock... the synergy on an ice wiz of a ranged ae nuke with ice debuff, a AE snare / disease / str debuff, 425 delve pbaoe + extra damage from rr 5 ... it's really nice.
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • edited December 4 PM
    Everyone was worried about realm timers when the real problem was the lack of population bonus to negate people who are normally competitive, log to join the money making realm at said time. They wont play an underpopulated realm cause there is 0 incentive to do that anymore. Everyone is struggling to get near the rp’s they use to get, or just 50k a night. I know for a fact I have played less since EC drop. I can’t really put my finger on why, but the game seems less rewarding, for the same amount of work put in.

    Plus, I’ve been paying for years, why take something away, and not give me anything for it. You give me the options to get more RP but it cost more RL cash or 500k bps for that. Timer on the pot is worse then a sup pot, burn 1 500k pot in 1 night. The bonus too a crap number is still a crap number even if you get 100% RP bonus. Those numbers do not even come close to the RP gained pre-patch.

    TC
    Post edited by Snaillyn on
  • Nice move removing the underpop-bonus.
    Let's all join Hero and PvE 98,5% of the time you're playing.
    Atleast it results in nice last week stats.
  • edited December 4 PM
    Whatta ya want for free?
    Post edited by Cartoan on
  • Snaillyn wrote: »
    Everyone was worried about realm timers when the real problem was the lack of population bonus to negate people who are normally competitive, log to join the money making realm at said time. They wont play an underpopulated realm cause there is 0 incentive to do that anymore. Everyone is struggling to get near the rp’s they use to get, or just 50k a night. I know for a fact I have played less since EC drop. I can’t really put my finger on why, but the game seems less rewarding, for the same amount of work put in.

    Plus, I’ve been paying for years, why take something away, and not give me anything for it. You give me the options to get more RP but it cost more RL cash or 500k bps for that. Timer on the pot is worse then a sup pot, burn 1 500k pot in 1 night. The bonus too a crap number is still a crap number even if you get 100% RP bonus. Those numbers do not even come close to the RP gained pre-patch.

    TC

    it seems that BS is clueless about how much they piss of their customers and how much people they drive away from the game by what they do.
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • Cartoan wrote: »
    Whatta ya want for free?

    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • about realm timers.

    i've never switched to so much to albion before to defend against herorius on my ice wiz....

    so obviously the realm timers aren't working.

    (obviously has something to do with being frustrated about my warlock and enjoying my ice wiz more atm)
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • edited December 5 PM
    Same I’m playing significantly less since the patch.
    No reason to assemble and fight vs Hero Zerg when they have the population and better heals/pbaoe/wall climbers.

    Removing the realm bonuses for underpopulated realm surely hasn’t helped the situation either.

    GL
    Post edited by Fateboi on
  • If a realm holds all keeps, all towers, all relics and has no one to kill during a defense/offense (nothing to defend since its all taken), then what happens? it would be cool to find out.
  • Hero has historically logged early when there's no one to fight. This isn't a new scenario.
  • I think BS actually made a good "Business" call for removing the Realm Bonus notification then. Very few would log into a realm that has 100% bonus during a primetime zerg timezone. I did say good business call.. i feel like the majority hates it though, for the same reason. Log in.. see your realm has zero bonus and the other realm has 80-100%... maybe its time to adjust
  • Would be funny if Broadsword came up with a system that adjust the damage/duration and power of abilities based on the number differences in a fight.

    If the hero zerg is outnumbering the defenders 2:1, then the defender's abilities would deal twice the damage. A bit like in Diablo where the mobs HP/damage increases everytime a new player joins the game.

    Would be funny haha. You want to fry your brain and be a mindless zombie lemming stuck to Hero's butt? Blap you get insta killed by a solo thane!

    I'm not serious btw, well maybe slightly
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