there is one class in the game that can't do damage....

Muylae · May 2018

give healers a charmable pet, which according to me fits completely into their background.

PAC is all about mind control.

let them charm mobs and give them some offensive capability.

Sym · May 2018

PAC healers get a 40% chance lifetap prof but it only works in PvE. This makes no sense, would they be too overpowered if this proc was usable in RvR?

Sovereign · May 2018

They are also the one class that has every form of CC while also being able to heal and be a sojo. I believe healers have historically been the top performing class amongst all the realms so let's not pretend their lack of damage has hindered them in any way, shape, or form. IMO healers should lose an ability or two, not be given more.

Solivos · May 2018

i would love to see healers have some way to do damage, however i believe one of the reasons why they havent been given damage abilties is due to the fact they are the only class that gets aoe stun and instant aoe stun, plus in addition to this they get single target stun, instant single target stun, single target mezz, aoe mezz, instant single target mezz, instant aoe mezz, and root, aside from snares they only cc they dont have access to is a aoe root. so i assume this is the reason, though I do think the pet idea is a good option, id even go so far as to also give them a pulsing pet charm that can charm higher level pets as well as a permament charm

deam0 · May 2018

Healers are probably the strongest support. Why would they ever need damage spells? If a healer really wanted to solo and 1v1 or maybe even 1v2 they can just whip out the 2hand astral and go to town. If healers were given damage spells, you would have another "solo shaman" situation, and if you have the time to nuke on a Pac healer, chances are you aren't played the class to full potential ;( . smh

And a pet?!!?! My lord

Fugo · May 2018

I'd prefer not to add a pet to this marvelous class ..

Cartoan · May 2018

Why give them damage when they already have Clumsy?

Amp_Phetamine · May 2018

Nice thought but not needed, as other posters have stated Healers are, without a doubt, continually amongst the top most efficient classes. Also I believe Sweexs(?) has a video showing how solo healers can even kill, it's hilarious.

smakadop · May 2018

Fugo wrote: »

I'd prefer not to add a pet to this marvelous class ..

Pretty much this. I'd be against any practical DPS spell too. Everything doesn't need to be everything. There's a ton of homogenization and role blurring as it is.

Ewer · May 2018

It's not meant to be an offensive class and if it were given an offensive spec line / offensive spells then it would need to give up some of its support. It doesn't make sense for them to keep everything they have now (and they have a lot) and also get DPS added in. Not having DPS is the reason it has all the strong support toys that it currently gets access to if given DPS it would need to have something significant taken away.

LunaVey · May 2018

I agree with all who say the Healer is excellent as is.

Muylae · May 2018

let me re-state stuff;

i was not not asking for offensive spells. (dd, dots, whatever);

i was asking for a charmable pet. a way to do damage that's in line with the class's idea. mind control and heals.

that way a healer could solo and still be nowhere near the things a mincer could do.

as it is, a standard mid group only has 6 people that can do any sort of damage. the other realms ALL have 8 people can do damage. Any group in hib and Alb have 8 people who can do damage in rvr. ok, most of the time, those classes will do other stuff, but given the right conditions, all 8 can do damage.

in mid, having 2 healers mandatory, only 6 people can do damage.

what's a mend/aug healer suposed to do when he doesn't have to heal ? he's worthless at that moment.

i do not think a healer charmable pet would make ANY difference in zerg warfare.

i think mid groups in general have way less access to pets than the other realms in solo, small man and fg fights than the other realms. sure, BD bring more pets to the scene, but that's not the same

Muylae · May 2018

maybe i should have called this thread 'there is one class in the game that can't do damage and can't solo'.

Budikah · May 2018

It's a hard trade off for being awesome.

Pets are more than DPS - they're interrupts. If you want to give them more DPS - there are other options.

Jak · May 2018

In another thread, I referenced swapping all abilities with main healing classes....who knows. (and yes it was a joke)

I did really laugh when I read someone 'going to town' with a two handed astral weapon on a healer. I am assuming champ styles to make it look more fun. Outstanding response.

Chamie · May 2018

I like the idea of giving healers something to deal damage but like you say pet would be overpowered. Our mid setup would then have all bd pets, SM pet and 2 healer pets in a 2 caster setup that is already interupt focused, it would simply be too overpowered.

However, I think they should be given a major melee damage buff that improves hit rate and melee damage or just improve the champion level styles. Another alternative could be to give them a low delve nuke like shamans got but I feel like that card has been a bit overused.

Ewer · May 2018

They should not get anything more unless they give something up. According to Simons latest post healers account for 18% of all RPS earned in Mid (higher % than any class on any realm). That doesn't sound like a class that needs any sort of buff.

If you want healers to get a DPS line fine, but what are they gonna give up (AOE stun and instant mez, sojo, etc?)

It may not be a class that can not do damage but it excels in every other aspect in the game. Its by far the strongest support class and has access to every sort of CC imaginable. A pet would just give it more CC power.

It can not receive any sort of enhancement in its current state without a nerf somewhere else. DPS would push them even farther to the top in a game where they are already king.

If people want to seriously talk about giving healers access to a DPS line then they need to seriously talk about nerfing and taking other things away from the class, but no one pushing for DPS seems to want to do that.

Xyorman · May 2018

edited

Ewer · May 2018

Xyorman wrote: »

Ewer wrote: »

They should not get anything more unless they give something up. According to Simons latest post healers account for 18% of all RPS earned in Mid (higher % than any class on any realm). That doesn't sound like a class that needs any sort of buff.

If you want healers to get a DPS line fine, but what are they gonna give up (AOE stun and instant mez, sojo, etc?)

It may not be a class that can not do damage but it excels in every other aspect in the game. Its by far the strongest support class and has access to every sort of CC imaginable. A pet would just give it more CC power.

It can not receive any sort of enhancement in its current state without a nerf somewhere else. DPS would push them even farther to the top in a game where they are already king.

If people want to seriously talk about giving healers access to a DPS line then they need to seriously talk about nerfing and taking other things away from the class, but no one pushing for DPS seems to want to do that.

edited (quotation)

Your issues w/ Simons posts aside...in your opinion healers are under-powered and should be given DPS without giving anything up? You think that would be a fair and balanced class?

Jak · May 2018

PAC healers get a 40% chance lifetap prof but it only works in PvE. This makes no sense, would they be too overpowered if this proc was usable in RvR?

Once upon a time, it did work in rvr, but was removed as being too powerful.

It has been stated numerous times that mids, have to run two healers in group. Therefore, your stats as you will, will show that there are a higher percentage of healers playing in which to fill those roles (main cc and heals for a group). Putting that aside, why is it that every time someone suggests that healers would like xyz in which to enhance their character play (whatever comment you will), someone always says, healers have to give up something in which to even entertain the idea?

We could go back into patches where clerics received a boost to their rr5 (yes, it was totally needed as it was pretty terrible and I realize that it's not a spec line), bards received root, and the list goes on; however,not once did those classes have to 'give up' something in which to gain those abilities. They can spec a certain line, not spec a certain line and choose those abilities which would enhance their choice of play style.

Healers to give up something, just to entertain the idea, let's get rid of the self-proc that they get. Does that change the original posters thoughts behind the suggestion? That would fulfill the demand of giving up something in which to get something.

Ewer · May 2018

Jak wrote: »

PAC healers get a 40% chance lifetap prof but it only works in PvE. This makes no sense, would they be too overpowered if this proc was usable in RvR?

Once upon a time, it did work in rvr, but was removed as being too powerful.

It has been stated numerous times that mids, have to run two healers in group. Therefore, your stats as you will, will show that there are a higher percentage of healers playing in which to fill those roles (main cc and heals for a group). Putting that aside, why is it that every time someone suggests that healers would like xyz in which to enhance their character play (whatever comment you will), someone always says, healers have to give up something in which to even entertain the idea?

We could go back into patches where clerics received a boost to their rr5 (yes, it was totally needed as it was pretty terrible and I realize that it's not a spec line), bards received root, and the list goes on; however,not once did those classes have to 'give up' something in which to gain those abilities. They can spec a certain line, not spec a certain line and choose those abilities which would enhance their choice of play style.

Healers to give up something, just to entertain the idea, let's get rid of the self-proc that they get. Does that change the original posters thoughts behind the suggestion? That would fulfill the demand of giving up something in which to get something.

The reason I keep saying they would need to give something up is because IMO they are already a really strong class and it would be needed to keep them in balance. If I came in here saying Sorcs need xyz no one is going to say "Wow yea lets add that ability and make them super OP!" (except for sorcs).

Large sweeping changes have never gone well in terms of class balance in the history of DAOC (see necros) and so I will urge that anytime someone proposes something for a class (especially when it completely changes the possible roll of that class) balance should be considered.

Do healers lack a DPS role, sure. I'll admit that. Do they need a DPS roll added on top of their current state? Absolutely not.

TiaSkip · May 2018

Ewer wrote: »

They should not get anything more unless they give something up. According to Simons latest post healers account for 18% of all RPS earned in Mid (higher % than any class on any realm). That doesn't sound like a class that needs any sort of buff.

If you want healers to get a DPS line fine, but what are they gonna give up (AOE stun and instant mez, sojo, etc?)

It may not be a class that can not do damage but it excels in every other aspect in the game. Its by far the strongest support class and has access to every sort of CC imaginable. A pet would just give it more CC power.

It can not receive any sort of enhancement in its current state without a nerf somewhere else. DPS would push them even farther to the top in a game where they are already king.

If people want to seriously talk about giving healers access to a DPS line then they need to seriously talk about nerfing and taking other things away from the class, but no one pushing for DPS seems to want to do that.

They have all ready gave something up and it wasn't by choice, they can't never do/complete solo daily quest like everyother toon can in the game.

Solivos · May 2018

So a solo healer is SOL if caught alone cept for wilsoning which they excel at. One idea and this fits in theme of Aug line is give them a melee damage boost like mercybringer for alb but make it more damage and increase the self damage shield to necromancer values. Put the mercybringer type buff at like 39 Aug that way you have to spec high to get it thus sacrificing high Pac. With damage shield a say top end 75 percent da.age boost and up damage add to 15 dps you now have a melee healer. That can do damage enough to bring down a caster or other soft targets

Ewer · May 2018

TiaSkip wrote: »

Ewer wrote: »

They should not get anything more unless they give something up. According to Simons latest post healers account for 18% of all RPS earned in Mid (higher % than any class on any realm). That doesn't sound like a class that needs any sort of buff.

If you want healers to get a DPS line fine, but what are they gonna give up (AOE stun and instant mez, sojo, etc?)

It may not be a class that can not do damage but it excels in every other aspect in the game. Its by far the strongest support class and has access to every sort of CC imaginable. A pet would just give it more CC power.

It can not receive any sort of enhancement in its current state without a nerf somewhere else. DPS would push them even farther to the top in a game where they are already king.

If people want to seriously talk about giving healers access to a DPS line then they need to seriously talk about nerfing and taking other things away from the class, but no one pushing for DPS seems to want to do that.

They have all ready gave something up and it wasn't by choice, they can't never do/complete solo daily quest like everyother toon can in the game.

That's an issue w/ the new dailies. There are plenty of classes that can complain about the solo quest/solo zone (in fact there is a ranged caster complaining about the new zones recently). I'd personally like to see the "daily solo" replaced with more class-aligned goals across the board.

For example:
Healing classes (Healers, clerics, friars, etc) could be given a daily "heal for X rps and resurrect X players" quest instead of the solo one.

Ranged casters: Get X deathblows (db's your group gets don't count toward this total unlike the other daily quests)

Assassins: Perf X players (I'm sure someone could come up with something better here, its just an example).

Things of this sort but I understand that wasn't the intention of the 'solo quest' I just think it would be a better system.

Ewer · May 2018

Solivos wrote: »

So a solo healer is SOL if caught alone cept for wilsoning which they excel at. One idea and this fits in theme of Aug line is give them a melee damage boost like mercybringer for alb but make it more damage and increase the self damage shield to necromancer values. Put the mercybringer type buff at like 39 Aug that way you have to spec high to get it thus sacrificing high Pac. With damage shield a say top end 75 percent da.age boost and up damage add to 15 dps you now have a melee healer. That can do damage enough to bring down a caster or other soft targets

So forcing a high spec in AUG would be a good example of "giving something up" where access to this forces you to lose things from another spec line. I'm OK with those sort of changes where it makes sense but in this case even at 39 AUG the pacification line would still be too strong.

You would have a melee sojourner with speed, castable AE stun, single target insta stun, root, insta heal, insta mez, castable ae mez, insta ae mez, heals and more.

I don't think with the way healers current spec lines are laid out you could work DPS in without making the class way too powerful. They are boarder line OP currently without DPS.

Sovereign · May 2018

Xyorman wrote: »

Ewer wrote: »

They should not get anything more unless they give something up. According to Simons latest post healers account for 18% of all RPS earned in Mid (higher % than any class on any realm). That doesn't sound like a class that needs any sort of buff.

If you want healers to get a DPS line fine, but what are they gonna give up (AOE stun and instant mez, sojo, etc?)

It may not be a class that can not do damage but it excels in every other aspect in the game. Its by far the strongest support class and has access to every sort of CC imaginable. A pet would just give it more CC power.

It can not receive any sort of enhancement in its current state without a nerf somewhere else. DPS would push them even farther to the top in a game where they are already king.

If people want to seriously talk about giving healers access to a DPS line then they need to seriously talk about nerfing and taking other things away from the class, but no one pushing for DPS seems to want to do that.

Simply another way stats are used incorrectly. Hilarious

Because they reveal that healers are the top preforming class and don't need anything whatsoever? I have no doubt that if they showed healers were the weakest performing class you would champion the data as it backed up your narrative but numbers are stubborn things.

Cartoan · May 2018

Give em one of the lame-assed druid pets.

Sovereign · May 2018

Jak wrote: »

It has been stated numerous times that mids, have to run two healers in group. Therefore, your stats as you will, will show that there are a higher percentage of healers playing in which to fill those roles (main cc and heals for a group). Putting that aside, why is it that every time someone suggests that healers would like xyz in which to enhance their character play (whatever comment you will), someone always says, healers have to give up something in which to even entertain the idea?

We could go back into patches where clerics received a boost to their rr5 (yes, it was totally needed as it was pretty terrible and I realize that it's not a spec line), bards received root, and the list goes on; however,not once did those classes have to 'give up' something in which to gain those abilities. They can spec a certain line, not spec a certain line and choose those abilities which would enhance their choice of play style.

Healers to give up something, just to entertain the idea, let's get rid of the self-proc that they get. Does that change the original posters thoughts behind the suggestion? That would fulfill the demand of giving up something in which to get something.

I like how you casually say, let's put aside the reality that the numerous roles they fill because of the numerous toys they have helps make them the most successful class in game.

People say they have to give up something because of everything they have access to. The reason other classes might not need to give up something to get something is arguably because they are underperforming and have to be brought up to par.

I hope you aren't seriously suggesting that healers lose an ability that is PVE based in exchange for a pet or other form of DPS as a balanced trade?

Sovereign · May 2018

TiaSkip wrote: »

They have all ready gave something up and it wasn't by choice, they can't never do/complete solo daily quest like everyother toon can in the game.

Their inability to complete the solo quest doesn't seem to have hindered their position as the top RP earner across all three realms.

Badnagen · May 2018

Cartoan wrote: »

Give em one of the lame-assed druid pets.

And then druids get stun and mez? Not a rabbit hole I want to go down.

Minibard · May 2018

Healers are fine. If you want to do damage, put your dam add buff up and whip out that hammer

Andy · May 2018

Most see the bigger picture on this one.

If you want dps put some of your cl points into styles.

Huehuaehue · May 2018

yeah class doesn't do damage, that's why they gave u like 30 other classes to play that do damage if you want...

heres a tip if you want to do DAMAGE, don't pick a character called a HEALER.. lol

Cartoan · May 2018

Badnagen wrote: »

Cartoan wrote: »

Give em one of the lame-assed druid pets.

And then druids get stun and mez? Not a rabbit hole I want to go down.

Hahaha. I was thinking instant AoE Shear. LOL

Huehuaehue · May 2018

and the last thing we need is healers trying to spam some **** lil dd in fights anyway when most of them don't be doing their jobs properly to begin with ;\ lol

Xyorman · May 2018

Ewer wrote: »

Xyorman wrote: »

Ewer wrote: »

They should not get anything more unless they give something up. According to Simons latest post healers account for 18% of all RPS earned in Mid (higher % than any class on any realm). That doesn't sound like a class that needs any sort of buff.

If you want healers to get a DPS line fine, but what are they gonna give up (AOE stun and instant mez, sojo, etc?)

It may not be a class that can not do damage but it excels in every other aspect in the game. Its by far the strongest support class and has access to every sort of CC imaginable. A pet would just give it more CC power.

It can not receive any sort of enhancement in its current state without a nerf somewhere else. DPS would push them even farther to the top in a game where they are already king.

If people want to seriously talk about giving healers access to a DPS line then they need to seriously talk about nerfing and taking other things away from the class, but no one pushing for DPS seems to want to do that.

Simply another way stats are used incorrectly. Hilarious

Your issues w/ Simons posts aside...in your opinion healers are under-powered and should be given DPS without giving anything up? You think that would be a fair and balanced class?

It has nothing to do with over or underpowered, it has nothing to do with realm points, YOU used a 'stat' to support an argument that isn't supported by the actual information the stat provides; there are MULTIPLE other factors that are significantly more influential in Healers being at the top of MID's RP food chain, I pointed that out.... the game has been homogenized across the board <while randomly OPing and Nerfing classes>;THE ONLY CONSTANT is healers have no inherent dps of ANY kind..... I think that is wrong, but honestly have no expectations of it changing....
having a rational discussion about it is, obviously, impossible.

Jak · May 2018

I don't believe in any of the posts from the OP did they say that the healer was under performing. It seems like it was something that the OP felt that might enhance their play style on said character. To me, that is a good thing that someone wants to enhance their play style and bring something to the table that may benefit their class.

The ability to complete a quest (and it not just pvp quests, but I can't speak for the poster that stated this) and generating the rps are not one and the same. You basically have a something implemented in game that excludes, as I believe someone put it "the most successful class in game". If this is excluding the most successful class in the game, how many other classes are left out of the questing as well? You are eliminating the population of players of the most played character in the game. Perhaps this will generate a new discussion. However, this doesn't seem very inclusive to me, or such is the 'healers' lot in life.

There is no harm in having a discussion of what someone's opinion is, as everyone who has posted have voiced their opinions based on their observations. However, to say that one class doesn't need anything whatsoever, is shortsighted.

There are a lot of issues with the game, be it broken quest lines, class balance, realm balance, population issues, 8v8 vs solo vs zergs, the list is pretty big. One thing I do know, there are a lot of passionate people who love this game. I am not suggesting we all hug and sing a bloody song, but what I am asking is to sit back and look at it from a bigger perspective. In the list of stuff that is needed, do healers really need a damage boost? Probably not, but from what I see here, the most voiced opinions are from those that don't play the class, or even the realm in question, which speaks volumes in itself.

Auf_Nymf · May 2018

edited

Xyorman · May 2018

edited

Dyn_Nothgrim · May 2018

TiaSkip wrote: »

Ewer wrote: »

They should not get anything more unless they give something up. According to Simons latest post healers account for 18% of all RPS earned in Mid (higher % than any class on any realm). That doesn't sound like a class that needs any sort of buff.

If you want healers to get a DPS line fine, but what are they gonna give up (AOE stun and instant mez, sojo, etc?)

It may not be a class that can not do damage but it excels in every other aspect in the game. Its by far the strongest support class and has access to every sort of CC imaginable. A pet would just give it more CC power.

It can not receive any sort of enhancement in its current state without a nerf somewhere else. DPS would push them even farther to the top in a game where they are already king.

If people want to seriously talk about giving healers access to a DPS line then they need to seriously talk about nerfing and taking other things away from the class, but no one pushing for DPS seems to want to do that.

They have all ready gave something up and it wasn't by choice, they can't never do/complete solo daily quest like everyother toon can in the game.

There have been lone enforcer healers. http://www.excidio.net/herald/character/y8rBYFLQeeg
Gitgud

DaRedANT · May 2018

Like you know anything about playing solo Dyn, let alone soloing a Healer in today’s game.

They should give Healers a weapon line like Bards, so they could spec like a Battle Bard if they choose to.

Dyn_Nothgrim · May 2018

Use cl styles spec for solo an template for solo.
what do you know about playing solo? 35k+ kills only like 951 solo kills.

Etheraa · May 2018

A pet is not required just allow there lifetap proc usable in rvr. Since item changes sweexs video is now out dated u can't do that anymore due to astral nerf and such high heal procs Allso keep in mind he was super high realm rank

Jak · May 2018

There have been lone enforcer healers. http://www.excidio.net/herald/character/y8rBYFLQeeg
Gitgud

Very outdated...and another lovely and helpful comment.

Cl styles, I am sure every healer has. Have you tried hitting players in actual combat? You do realize that most characters today with decent templates, can regen health faster then a healer dealing damage to them. Most weapons have been nerfed and makes this infeasible. Though give it a shot and let us know how it goes.

Ewer · May 2018

Jak wrote: »

Probably not, but from what I see here, the most voiced opinions are from those that don't play the class, or even the realm in question, which speaks volumes in itself.

Listening to the people that constantly have to fight and contend with a class is equally as valuable input to a discussion like this. If only the input from one side were considered or voiced than everyone would be on here asking for an "I win" button. To be honest those that play healer haven't contributed much to this thread at all. I suspect they came here to mostly QQ (thats fine, we all need to vent sometimes) and not actually have any sort of discussion.

I"m not against DPS for healers, I'm against DPS for healers in their current spec lines given how strong those lines are and given all the other various toys they get. Adding pretty much anything on top of what healers already have would probably push them over the top. Only 1 person in this thread has even tried to show how/where DPS would fit in spec wise for the class and even then I think it would make the class far too powerful.

Budikah · May 2018

This entire thread seems sort of laughable to me. It sounds like people want to have their cake and eat it too.

They already heal and CC - what other roles do they need to be able to fill?

I don't think it's obscene that people want to consider giving them the option for damage - but some of the ways requested seem odd.

Off the cuff ideas...

- A "stance" wherein their healing output and CC duration are severely reduced for a temporary damage boost. The reduction should last longer than the boost as an "exhaustion" style mechanic ala Arrogance charge.

- Consider giving them a weapon line, albeit requiring consideration of their new overall abilities.

- Change their base damage table upwards, requiring consideration of their new overall abilities.

Giving them castable spells and pets starts to add more utility to a class with plenty. If they want to whack **** with a hammer, give up some of what makes the class desireable in spite of their lack of DPS.

Muylae · May 2018

maybe i should have called this thread 'there is one class in the game that can't do damage and can't solo'.

Sovereign wrote: »

TiaSkip wrote: »

They have all ready gave something up and it wasn't by choice, they can't never do/complete solo daily quest like everyother toon can in the game.

Their inability to complete the solo quest doesn't seem to have hindered their position as the top RP earner across all three realms.

they are top rp earners because every single mid group needs two of them.

Muylae · May 2018

Jak wrote: »

I don't believe in any of the posts from the OP did they say that the healer was under performing. It seems like it was something that the OP felt that might enhance their play style on said character. To me, that is a good thing that someone wants to enhance their play style and bring something to the table that may benefit their class.

i don't have a healer.

Muylae · May 2018

Dyn_Nothgrim wrote: »

There have been lone enforcer healers. http://www.excidio.net/herald/character/y8rBYFLQeeg
Gitgud

if you tell me those stats don't look dodgy ... lol

Dyn_Nothgrim · May 2018

Muylae wrote: »

Dyn_Nothgrim wrote: »

There have been lone enforcer healers. http://www.excidio.net/herald/character/y8rBYFLQeeg
Gitgud

if you tell me those stats don't look dodgy ... lol

He has videos soloing.
Times change but there are always bad players to farm regardless of class.

Chamie · May 2018

Actually, I think I take back my comment. Maybe mid needs at least one more pet to catch up. If the bd or his commander dies even once mids will lack pets hardcorely in 8vs8. Couldnt hurt to give green con pet to healer or shaman really. Theurg is very strong when you can just ress him, he takes supremacy potion and he´s instantly back.
Other than that, af debuff necro, caba, sorc and minstrel all have pretty strong pets aswell although you never have all those 4 in one group.

Hibs... ye well pet on menta, chanter, vamp and the green con on druids which is actually quite tanky nowadays.

Mid is definitely the strongest realm for small man groups in my opinion but right now it´s struggling in 8 man for sure. That is a statement that almost the entire European 8 man community will agree on.
It works ok when I play with my Nogdar group and we have EVERYTHING up vs other top EU groups but thats only cus we have the higest average RR out of all 8 man groups in DAoC.
I don´t know if its that mid is too weak or if alb is too strong though. The only thing on hib that I question is the vamp, yellow con pet...?

To sum up: mids need to have pets on more than just SM and BD.

there is one class in the game that can't do damage....

Comments