Friday Grab Bag - 07/23/2021

Behold! A Grab Bag!

Stay tuned next week for some new keep upgrade system features and changes, reintroduction of the safe teleport on EV, class tweaks, bug fixes, and the midsummer event!

Friday, July 30th, at 8:30PM EST / Saturday July 31st at 2:30AM CET sees the next player ran 8v8 draft night! We'll be hosting a multi pov stream on our official Twitch channel for the event featuring povs not just from our usual dev pov, but also from many streamers within the groups :) There's still time to sign up, so join the draft discord to find out more!

Thanks, as always, to everyone for your questions! You can submit any questions relating to current development plans, to request clarification on basic game mechanic questions, or questions on community issues through the Grab Bag Submission form. For any other feedback or suggestions please use ourfeedback form.

Onward for the questions!


Hey! is there any reason that the Mid Axe style Valkyrie's Shield doesnt have any to hit bonus across all classes? Axe seems the lesser used weapon on mid for alot of classes, so is there any reason for it? And could it be fixed to have a medium bonus to hit? TY!

Valkyrie’s Shield provides a medium defensive bonus. As a general rule (though of course there are exceptions) most styles provide either a to-hit or defensive bonus but not both. That said, we will certainly take a look at this style and Axe in general to see if it warrants any adjustments!


I have a question concerning bow damages type. Thrust damage is dex/strength, the bows are thrust damage, are they capped on dex/str then? Or only dex?

No matter the damage type, all Archery specialization-based skills or basic bow shots (on other classes that may use bows) are solely dexterity-based.

Technically, damage types have no direct connection to any character stats. The damage type is simply the type of magic or physical damage used for calculating against the target’s resistance values. For example, Legendary Weapons use magical damage types but the damage is still treated like a melee swing, using all of the factors, specializations, and stats from the character that determine melee swing damage.

While damage types are simply a type of damage used, specializations can use different stats or combinations of stats to determine damage. For example the Thrust specialization in Albion (or Piercing in Hibernia) uses a combination of a character’s dexterity and strength stats to directly determine their damage (and increase their weaponskill) while the Slash specialization (or Sword in Midgard and Blades in Hibernia) is solely strength-based.


Regarding Dragonslayer cloth robes, according to the item DB there are 2 versions, one with dex/acuity cap and the other one with 4% range/dmg. Is the one with dex/acuity cap still available in game? At the dragonslayer dude with the quest for the armor piece I’m only getting the option with range/dmg (necro), and I also can't wear it with lvl 44 even though it doesn’t say anything about a level requirement.

The version with 4% range and spell damage is the only version that drops on Ywain and Gaheris. The other version is only from the Bossiney cluster which would require a character transferring over with it now since Bossiney is archived.

Note: Characters with the version from Bossiney can swap it at Trishy in Camelot, Brohd in Jordheim, or Elenora in Tir na Nog for the Ywain/Gaheris version but this exchange is not reversible.

There is a level 45+ requirement to equip the gear and we will correct the issue preventing that requirement from displaying.


Is there any reason why the Hallowed Staff has a CL15 requirement, but none of the other Hallowed items do?

This appears to be an oversight and is now corrected. Thanks!


With how tanky you can make templates these days (CL15, 600 hp, 10 conversion being accessible, etc) is it time that heavy tanks had some of their abilities looked at? Mostly thinking of their free AoM9 passive, rather than their free 10% extra HP or their active abilities. At the time of these abilities' introduction it made a lot of sense why heavy tanks needed them to be viable. Nowadays however killing a heavy tank in any playstyle (1v1, 8v8, zerg) feels like the equivalent of killing a raid boss. Although character toughness is higher across the board and tankiness is an emphasized feature of the heavy tank archetype, it feels as if the recent changes to templating has made them a bit too fool-proof.

We are always looking at class performance and do tend to agree that they may be a bit too sturdy currently. Stay tuned!


Thanks everyone! Fun week ahead next week :)
Enjoy the weekend!


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Comments

  • if every classes have access to "CL15, 600 hp, 10 conversion" what is the problem?

    testudo is the real raid boss level but who cares , maybe remove BG/guard possibility while testudo or add negative thing like heroes.




  • The warrior is slowed during testudo
  • I read that GB question, and don't get me wrong, I see where they are coming from. If you are trying to dd down a hero in a zerg fight its not going to go well for you... That said...

    1) Heavy tanks are very situational. They aren't the best soloers, they aren't the best small maners, and you're lucky if you get a fg as a heavy. (may be a spot for 1 for bolstering roar/peels/bg?). Light tank dps + charge + rupts, you really can't match it with a heavy. A well played caster, any class, can kill a heavy tank, any rr. you just have to pre-kite and be patient.

    2) this extra HP argument. That actually benefits light tanks much more so than it does heavies (the extra 200hp cap). Going from 3400-3600 hp is ~5% more HP on a class where HP was never really the issue. If your enemy is attacking your heavy tank, congrats! you are going to win the fight! Grouping a light tank or heck, even a mauler, from 2800-3000 (7%) is more attractive though. Even more so for casters (though the recent acuity and AF nerfs hurt casters and not really anyone else).

    3) there are plenty of classes that are much harder to kill than heavy tanks, for the vast majority of other classes out there. (unless you are an assassin maybe). Reavers, Pallies, Necros, Champs, Skalds, Valks, BD's, SM's, Cabs (in theory) Any light tank (especially Zerk), any non-afk mauler, Any pre-2016 solo played ment, eld, ani or chanter (no really good hib casters left but the classes are good still). Honestly, any archer with all their get away tools, shouldn't really lose to much of anything unless their toys are down. Its either a draw (they wilson) or they will slowly eat you from range.

    4) My main thought over the last 6 months: Some people have decided its better to camp all their timers and win one fight every 10-15 minutes (i don't know, maybe they are making mac'n cheese for their kids in the interim), than to fight 5x in that time frame and maybe win all 5 (or not). What that leaves us with, is a very lousy solo situation, where even if you get a good fight and maybe they dumped everything, you come right back knowing all their toys are down so its going to be payback, and the stealther who saw it tells you they ported back as soon as their toys are down. You see them 15 minutes later, porting back to solo spot after circling their timers/charges.

    I don't know how to fix the solo situation, and the game maybe should be made for groups to begin with, its just us lousy non-socialites. You are always going to get people who try to mini max things and maybe for them to win they can only do it with everything up. Then you will be fighting just skalds, zerks, pallies necros and reavers for the most part, and will be able to name the 1-2 players on any other moderate to good solo class.

    If I was going to suggest class fixes across the board it would be:
    a) remove archer's ability to phase shift + speed burst.
    b) assassins should get free vanish on a 15 second timer, provided you have gotten a death blow in the proceeding 15 seconds.
    c) light tanks should get free charge 5 until they get rr5, then it should be tiered until say R11 when they have to fully pay for it.
    d) melee necros should not benefit from comprehension pots for weapon skill.
    e) bards should get casted amnesia like everyone else.
    f) the rest is just a wish list that is probably more related to my home realm and play style, so I'll leave it at that.
  • Free vanish lol
  • To clarify, I'm suggesting removing regular vanish mechanics altogether. That said, I don't think stealth classes are horribly out of alignment like light tanks and hybrids are. Regular vanish just contributes to stealth groups where all stealth classes can vanish or phase shift + speed burst, if they are about to die, and fg's cannot come "clean them out" because even if they are hitting someone, they can all disengage and PS/SB or vanish away.

    In solo, 95% of sins use vanish to get away from a fight they started but can't finish, then they wait 15 minutes to play again. Assassins should only be rewarded if they stick around to get a deathblow. If not, you're stuck using your plethera of other getaway tools (pbaoe mez, snare poison + snare styles, stuns, disease procs, crescendo charge, climb a wall, etc. + stealth up).

    The flip side is that PS/SB or vanish or zephyr extend stealth group vs stealth group fights and make them more fun for the participants. In theory. In reality, there's always a biggest stealth group, so all other stealth groups avoid them, and everyone preys on small mans and solos.

    It's hard to say where they are going on this just from the grab bag question and response, but there are a lot of abilities that give groups/players more damage absorption than heavy tank's inherent resists. What makes heavy tanks seem extra sturdy is many heavy tanks also purchase AOM9 and run an AOM charge (for 40-50% secondary resists, because it's their job to soak damage, not deal excessive dps. Pallies, zerks and champs who run AOM9 are also a lot harder to kill from one solo caster). Heavy tank 2ndary magic resist is also a class defining attribute at this point, so I don't really know the use for heavy tanks if they can't soak a little more damage. Things that give more group damage absorb utility:

    Curse set mauler absorb- 34% all damage absorb/2 chars per group, Mauler r5 25% group 1m dur. Heretic RR5 (75% magic resists 1m dur). Melee necro spell turn chant (Way of Magic- 75% of next damage is converted to heal.. (chant is now 12s though) So a DD spell (or oil) that would have killed you for 1,000 damage will now heal for 500 (-250 damage +750heal). Enhance chanter 1500 100% magic absorb (Mana Barrier)-cast on every pbaoe caster in the group to out-bomb any choke point. Warrior class cloak (15s 100% magic resists- I'm not sure if this is accurate though). Minstrel group 20% secondary magic resist chant (Song of spell Invulnerability). Champ 15% secondary group magic resist (even the odds). Valk 600 group magic ablative (30s, 30s recast Odin's Temperance). Shaman Spirit Shell, Druid Nature's Cacoon, Cleric Hand of God (Absorb 50% all damage, 10sdur). Smite Cleric (Radiant Reflection), and Healer Cloak both give the class 10% all damage redux. Many class loyalty cloaks give a 40% aom use (15s dur). Bainshee class loyalty cloak gives 35% group all damage resist (this may have changed, like warrior cloak I can't confirm) Just what I can think of.
  • Koe wrote: »
    To clarify, I'm suggesting removing regular vanish mechanics altogether. That said, I don't think stealth classes are horribly out of alignment like light tanks and hybrids are. Regular vanish just contributes to stealth groups where all stealth classes can vanish or phase shift + speed burst, if they are about to die, and fg's cannot come "clean them out" because even if they are hitting someone, they can all disengage and PS/SB or vanish away.

    In solo, 95% of sins use vanish to get away from a fight they started but can't finish, then they wait 15 minutes to play again. Assassins should only be rewarded if they stick around to get a deathblow. If not, you're stuck using your plethera of other getaway tools (pbaoe mez, snare poison + snare styles, stuns, disease procs, crescendo charge, climb a wall, etc. + stealth up).

    The flip side is that PS/SB or vanish or zephyr extend stealth group vs stealth group fights and make them more fun for the participants. In theory. In reality, there's always a biggest stealth group, so all other stealth groups avoid them, and everyone preys on small mans and solos.

    It's hard to say where they are going on this just from the grab bag question and response, but there are a lot of abilities that give groups/players more damage absorption than heavy tank's inherent resists. What makes heavy tanks seem extra sturdy is many heavy tanks also purchase AOM9 and run an AOM charge (for 40-50% secondary resists, because it's their job to soak damage, not deal excessive dps. Pallies, zerks and champs who run AOM9 are also a lot harder to kill from one solo caster). Heavy tank 2ndary magic resist is also a class defining attribute at this point, so I don't really know the use for heavy tanks if they can't soak a little more damage. Things that give more group damage absorb utility:

    Curse set mauler absorb- 34% all damage absorb/2 chars per group, Mauler r5 25% group 1m dur. Heretic RR5 (75% magic resists 1m dur). Melee necro spell turn chant (Way of Magic- 75% of next damage is converted to heal.. (chant is now 12s though) So a DD spell (or oil) that would have killed you for 1,000 damage will now heal for 500 (-250 damage +750heal). Enhance chanter 1500 100% magic absorb (Mana Barrier)-cast on every pbaoe caster in the group to out-bomb any choke point. Warrior class cloak (15s 100% magic resists- I'm not sure if this is accurate though). Minstrel group 20% secondary magic resist chant (Song of spell Invulnerability). Champ 15% secondary group magic resist (even the odds). Valk 600 group magic ablative (30s, 30s recast Odin's Temperance). Shaman Spirit Shell, Druid Nature's Cacoon, Cleric Hand of God (Absorb 50% all damage, 10sdur). Smite Cleric (Radiant Reflection), and Healer Cloak both give the class 10% all damage redux. Many class loyalty cloaks give a 40% aom use (15s dur). Bainshee class loyalty cloak gives 35% group all damage resist (this may have changed, like warrior cloak I can't confirm) Just what I can think of.



    I think there's a fine line here in regards to heavy tanks. The other abilities you mention (outside the mins buff) are on a cool down or are a /use. I'm personally OK with strong abilities being gated by time.

    Where a problem arises is if you can get that same level of resistance passively (such as is the case for heavies.) I also think heavy tanks should be able to resist magic significantly better than any other class, since they are largely intended to push past caster domination. As it stands now, HT are a bit too resistant and that only get's worse with the stackable resists and high RR. So, I'm curious at how BS intends to remedy this issue without dramatically upsetting the balance.
  • KoeKoe
    edited July 26 PM
    The point about timers is valid, but its more of a sliding scale than a binary yes/no.

    Champ and minstrel can both keep 2ndary magic up indefinitely (champ provided there are enemies around). Healer cloak/Smite cleric and necro chant can also keep things up with almost no effort. Druid/cleric/sham shell is 1x min. Mauler and valk can cast 2x every minute. Chanter, anyone (could cast on the whole zerg)(with a 45 second cooldown/toon afterwards). Tick RR5, and class AOM cloaks/bain (or astral heros) are 10min reuse.

    I guess I still don't get the issue. Id rather have 5 heros chasing me than 3 blademasters. I'd rather fight a group with an equal number of warriors than zerks or savages. Heavy tank dps (damage over time) is probably 60-70% that of light tanks because of the difference between 2h and 2 hands, and 4.5 speed being capped vs 6.0. It's also better vs defenses, bladeturn, gets even better with stackable damage adds and/or aotg, and has 2x the chance to proc (and easier to template to boot with the extra slot. If HT's don't have extra spell resists, what are they good for?
    Post edited by Koe on
  • @Ciddire one of the top rules of this forum is… don’t even bother talking to Koe.
  • LffLff
    edited July 26 PM
    Ciddire wrote: »
    As it stands now, HT are a bit too resistant and that only get's worse with the stackable resists and high RR.

    So I read this and it sounds like what I've heard in region chat from time to time over the last few months. Not that this is you or what you think. Glad we are having this convo. Basically it goes like, some solo player on a hybrid just wrecking all classes (casters, assassins, archers, light tanks, etc.) finally encounters someone on a high rr heavy tank, and loses a long drawn out fight. Then they go to region chat because there is just no way they could have won that fight, and that's just not fair. (It's not fair to the rest of us that there's no way to beat your R11 hybrid). Heavies are super beatable, though ml power tap needs a big nerf.
    Post edited by Lff on
  • Enkertons wrote: »
    @Ciddire one of the top rules of this forum is… don’t even bother talking to Koe.

    There's a very vocal group of 30ish "soloers" who join discord chat, stand around in relic towns or at folly (if all their toys are up). They like to play the most OP classes, and some of them like to create videos of taking multiples or quickly destroying others, etc. If they are losing a 1v1 they will call all their friends to add, and they will. The rest of the playerbase has a name for it. I won't disparage their playstyle, but it is not what the vast majority of DAOC players do, and I will point out that they may not have the best interests of the vast majority of daoc players at heart. And sometimes they take offense when players call them out as apparently here.

    No, hybrids shouldn't be able to easily beat anything 1v1. It's a good point above that there is some counter balance to hybrids being so OP in solo, in that heavies (who lose to others easily), can beat hybrids or in the case of skalds at least make them stay away.

    Still I don't think the game should be centered around 1v1 play. If you have constructive comments or corrections to anything I or others have written, feel free to post them.
  • Can we get these “class tweaks” sent to Pendragon for Testing purposes?
  • edited August 1 PM
    Koe wrote: »

    There's a very vocal group of 30ish "soloers" who join discord chat, stand around in relic towns or at folly (if all their toys are up). They like to play the most OP classes, and some of them like to create videos of taking multiples or quickly destroying others, etc. If they are losing a 1v1 they will call all their friends to add, and they will.

    well, luckily, 1) I haven't soloed in about a year, 2) I'm not in the official Discord, 3) I don't post videos, and 4) when I did solo, I was almost never at the solo areas. So, I guess I'm the right guy for this conversation.
    Koe wrote:
    The rest of the playerbase has a name for it.

    It's okay - we have a name for you, too, but I don't feel like getting moderated.
    Koe wrote:
    I won't disparage their playstyle, but it is not what the vast majority of DAOC players do, and I will point out that they may not have the best interests of the vast majority of daoc players at heart. And sometimes they take offense when players call them out as apparently here.

    I think anyone who knows me and my feedback knows I have the best interest of the vast majority of the players at heart and have proved it time and time again. You're just showing your own ignorance.
    Koe wrote:
    No, hybrids shouldn't be able to easily beat anything 1v1. It's a good point above that there is some counter balance to hybrids being so OP in solo, in that heavies (who lose to others easily), can beat hybrids or in the case of skalds at least make them stay away.

    You're the one who pivoted over to hybrids - this discussion was about them nerfing the durability of heavy tanks in groups/zergs - has nothing to do with solo or small man, and the changes will barely impact solo or small man.
    Koe wrote:
    Still I don't think the game should be centered around 1v1 play.

    No one said it should - that's why heavy tanks are getting nerfed for playstyles other than solo

    Just another misaligned, uninformed rant from ole @Koe. I guess you made my point.

    Like I said @Ciddire , don't even bother.
    Post edited by Enkertons on
  • I don't think it means what you think it means, when you quote me as confirming I do not think that the game should be centered around 1v1 play as a caveat to my entire post.

    Sorry, I don't zerg, but I can assure you that in 8v8 (which I believe is the game's strong suit), heavies aren't Op either. They do have a use, but that's it. It's also interesting that you took 41 lines and at least one edit to say:

    Heavy tanks are getting nerfed for larger scale playsyles and it will have little impact on small man/solo.

    Interesting, because before your "i got you brah", I had written:
    Koe wrote: »
    I think almost all of that is decent to really good. I don't see the heavy tank 10% passive reduction though. Makes it more useful to run champs/minstrels (sorry mids you're SOL) than a heavy, though to be honest it won't make much difference; there are only ~2-3 heavy tanks out there across all 3 realms that don't just zerg.

    If I missed any additional insight, please let me know. That took me 1 line to paraphrase and 3 to show you that I said what you said, first.

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