Ok time to be blunt.

edited June 15 in General Board
@John_Broadsword

Casual and New players have been leaving or left since recent solo and 8 man focused changes.

1. Ports need to return to the towers on EV and safe path reopened.

2. Hib stun at keeps MUST be neutralized.

3. Nightshades can and do climb in keeps and move fumble storms stopping any defense at outer oil's of keeps (Hero BG specific) so need to changed from stormlord to battlemaster.

4. IRC and the better groups are using solo ports to get around realms faster than should be allowed, stop it.

5. BG's are not running at all times in NF on any realm there needs to be something for New and Returning people to do for FUN in frontiers leave doppels and maybe an enemy guard/tower/keep quest for RP+BP in groups as the population is so low.

I am sick and tired of explaining how Hib stun IN KEEPS is a problem but I will keep trying.

Ever noticed how Mids have a BG full of tanks but dont climb into keeps?

I'll tell you why, Hib's stun AT KEEPS shut down any meaningful defense or offense also known as FUN.

Now I was pleased to see changes to Stormlord and I thought MAYBE that would help fix things and results were promising however population has dropped even further and as Stormlord is pointless in openfield fights noone well maybe a few players spec it and nothing has changed.

Caledonia was a boon for 8 man but you made a simple error in thinking everyone would jump on board for cool 8 man action, to be clear 8 man is the BEST PART OF RvR but if you cant get into one of those fabled l33t 8 man setups you are going to be farmed by said 8's in a PUG and have no FUN.

Players need fun even when there is no BG or atleast until there is one.

DAoC is a Game and should be FUN (Not the same as simple or easy) not hard work.
Post edited by Stoopiduser on
«13

Comments

  • 40j2tlte7j9t.jpg
    ...
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • 20+ years and people still complain about hib stun
  • 20+ years and people still complain about hib stun

    Not sure how a casted stun that lasts 1 second on a stoic det 9 tank is a deterrent to climb, but I guess it is.

    Hib OP
  • @John_Broadsword

    Casual and New players have been leaving or left since recent solo and 8 man focused changes.

    1. Ports need to return to the towers on EV and safe path reopened.

    2. Hib stun at keeps MUST be neutralized.

    3. Nightshades can and do climb in keeps and move fumble storms stopping any defense at outer oil's of keeps (Hero BG specific) so need to changed from stormlord to battlemaster.

    4. IRC and the better groups are using solo ports to get around realms faster than should be allowed, stop it.

    5. BG's are not running at all times in NF on any realm there needs to be something for New and Returning people to do for FUN in frontiers leave doppels and maybe an enemy guard/tower/keep quest for RP+BP in groups as the population is so low.

    I am sick and tired of explaining how Hib stun IN KEEPS is a problem but I will keep trying.

    Ever noticed how Mids have a BG full of tanks but dont climb into keeps?

    I'll tell you why, Hib's stun AT KEEPS shut down any meaningful defense or offense also known as FUN.

    Now I was pleased to see changes to Stormlord and I thought MAYBE that would help fix things and results were promising however population has dropped even further and as Stormlord is pointless in openfield fights noone well maybe a few players spec it and nothing has changed.

    Caledonia was a boon for 8 man but you made a simple error in thinking everyone would jump on board for cool 8 man action, to be clear 8 man is the BEST PART OF RvR but if you cant get into one of those fabled l33t 8 man setups you are going to be farmed by said 8's in a PUG and have no FUN.

    Players need fun even when there is no BG or atleast until there is one.

    DAoC is a Game and should be FUN (Not the same as simple or easy) not hard work.

    I don't want to sound rude, but every time I see you online you are in Rescu's BG. Maybe you play other hours, idk.

    But, imo, you can't judge the balance of the game based on the worst group of players in the history of the game. These guys aren't new, they are 20 year vets that are just hanging out until the game dies. They have no interest in being somewhat competitive. You can say they are "casuals", but I don't think that's the correct term. They are just inept.
  • I am online everyday EU time 7pm - 10pm with my guild on Alb.

    Except yesturday because on Sunday EU time we found 2 mid groups in 40 mins and then nothing for 2 hours until IRC logged in and we died twice so I told my guildleader I was going to Mid where there is atleast a BG and something to do other than running round in circles for 2 hours.

    I can only join US BG with Rescu when the Kids are off school or its the weekend so that is not my only experience.

    I judge the balance of the game on the fact before Hero was a problem for US Prime he was doing the same thing to EU Prime for years and I was there defending when population was ALOT higher than now.
  • Broadsword has designed the game to reward competitive play. That isn't inherently a bad approach, but I can see it as a large deterrent to players who can't or won't handle more than a couple of hotbars worth of abilities. DAoC is long passed its "casual" days and suggesting the most recent changes are the problem demonstrates a severe lack in perspective. Battlegroups (i.e. zerging) have been the primary, arguably only, form of casual play in DAoC for a long time (> 10 years). Every other play style has required the player at minimum to know their class to be somewhat successful. Passive play, like tower camping (with or without traps), is self-defeating because it relies on everyone else to be active. It contributes nothing to the game and should not be encouraged.

    While the quantity of players continues to drop, so does the quality. Everyone cheats, the developers favor one realm over the others, my class is always nerfed while theirs is buffed, etc. There is always an excuse as to why a player loses a fight. However, it's never the player who is at fault. The system is clearly rigged. DAoC is going to have its 20th anniversary in October this year. Yet, we have players who still play like its vanilla. No amount of developer intervention is going to make bad players good.
  • edited June 15 PM
    The only reason for the game to be passed its casual days would be due to them changing the game to be less casual friendly.

    What do you want competative 8v8 or a thriving server with lots of 8v8's happening organically all over NF?

    I know which I would prefer.

    The more I think of it perhaps a FG tower/keep quest with good RP/BP rewards would be a good idea as even a duo can take a unclaimed tower.

    Gaheris RP's in NF only more people taking stuff and more chances to defend or attack great for casual's IRC can't be everywhere :)
    Post edited by Stoopiduser on
  • edited June 15 PM
    [quote="Stoopiduser;33191"

    I judge the balance of the game on the fact before Hero was a problem for US Prime he was doing the same thing to EU Prime for years and I was there defending when population was ALOT higher than now.[/quote]

    I dont think Hero was ever a problem during NA Prime. He just broke the Hib Zerg because Jedi doesnt want to run with him.

    You dont have many Mid tanks climbing because you have to spec 50 Savage and lose many things in the process.

    just get a cleric to MA and he can stun for you. base line stun is not whats stopping albs from taking keeps. Its Albs stopping albs from taking keeps. No tanks in BG We have no issue with Base line stun
    Post edited by Minibard on
  • edited June 15 PM
    8v8 has always been a competitive play style. It was easier to get into a PUG when there were more players, but the PUGs I played with at least tried to fill for a particular comp AND required voice chat. That was 15 years ago. Nothing has changed in that respect. Groups that didn't communicate or attempt to coordinate got rolled just as much then as they do now.
    Post edited by puter on
  • edited June 15 PM
    Guys you are coming at this from a 8 man perspective/mindset.

    Yes you COULD have a cleric MA,
    You COULD force a good comp and wait 2 hours,
    You COULD make everyone use the specific comms you use,
    You COULD just get good.

    But if there are no people to have fun.

    You COULD quit the game,
    You COULD be running around for 2 hours without meeting another FG,
    You COULD log with 10k rps after said 2 hours.

    and that is my point you need people for every playstyle so why not make it easier and rewarding to play?

    Would you guys not like to earn 1 million rps a day instead of your poor 100k+?
    Post edited by Stoopiduser on
  • Minibard wrote: »
    You dont have many Mid tanks climbing because you have to spec 50 Savage and lose many things in the process.

    Are you saying Mid's BG dont have more Warriors than Hib has Heros? You maybe correct to be honest I have never checked but I only see at most 8 Hero's on the walls when hibs are attacking and to repel those Hero's you have to show yourself on the wall to get stun nuked to death.

    I know how to not get hit and still it happens to me it is not stoopid player problem it a nearest target or hold finger on stun button until target visible problem.
  • I only agree with your first point:
    1. Ports need to return to the towers on EV and safe path reopened.

    EV feels so depressingly dead since the changes. It's the draft action and that's about it.

    It's a population problem. I hope the (1?) broadsword employee goes into the office everyday thinking how he/she can bring the population up. Game is one more bird server opening event from being unplayable.
  • Guys you are coming at this from a 8 man perspective/mindset.

    Yes you COULD have a cleric MA,
    You COULD force a good comp and wait 2 hours,
    You COULD make everyone use the specific comms you use,
    You COULD just get good.

    But if there are no people to have fun.

    You COULD quit the game,
    You COULD be running around for 2 hours without meeting another FG,
    You COULD log with 10k rps after said 2 hours.

    and that is my point you need people for every playstyle so why not make it easier and rewarding to play?

    Would you guys not like to earn 1 million rps a day instead of your poor 100k+?

    I'm coming at this from a "the game is almost 20 years old" approach. You either learn how to play or you don't. This game requires coordination between players to be enjoyable. Face rolling over ones keyboard isn't a viable way to play.
  • puter wrote: »
    Guys you are coming at this from a 8 man perspective/mindset.

    Yes you COULD have a cleric MA,
    You COULD force a good comp and wait 2 hours,
    You COULD make everyone use the specific comms you use,
    You COULD just get good.

    But if there are no people to have fun.

    You COULD quit the game,
    You COULD be running around for 2 hours without meeting another FG,
    You COULD log with 10k rps after said 2 hours.

    and that is my point you need people for every playstyle so why not make it easier and rewarding to play?

    Would you guys not like to earn 1 million rps a day instead of your poor 100k+?

    I'm coming at this from a "the game is almost 20 years old" approach. You either learn how to play or you don't. This game requires coordination between players to be enjoyable. Face rolling over ones keyboard isn't a viable way to play.

    Well the game is 20 years old and to keep the game fresh you need new content you need to entice new players to try the game but its just not happening. Plus the pvp event like the ghostly incursion the, reward you get can be bought with bounty so it kinda kills the thrill of the event. We need to look at certain things that hurt the game no customer support or pretty much none very toxic players who feel they can say and do what ever they want. The advice channel is a joke nothing but trolls. Plus telling players to learn to play doesn't help player its discourages them. I want Dark Age to survive but at this point a lot of the changes have not been good for the game but only for a select few . This is my opinion .

  • puter wrote: »
    I'm coming at this from a "the game is almost 20 years old" approach. You either learn how to play or you don't. This game requires coordination between players to be enjoyable. Face rolling over ones keyboard isn't a viable way to play.

    No you require coordination to enjoy the game, New people only require something to do thats fun and as a side effect they will group to make things easier or quicker.

    This is not about what makes the game fun for you or me its about getting and keeping new people and if people like you and me hate the game after or find it boring so be it.

    Making changes because they want 8man action has caused a noticable drop in the people we need, new and returning players, without them down goes the population.

    I made a post about hib stun pinning Mids and Albs into keeps causing people to have no fun and get frustrated BS listened and tried what i thought was a good idea but that has not worked.

    So here we are again, give casuals easy things to do and places to go and the long term fixed is what it has always been FIX HIB STUN AT KEEPS

    If @John_Broadsword wants the keep fights thats what he has to do if Herorius wont attack a keep anymore then so be it he will adapt.

    I seen a very interesting chart with players numbers for another place.. wanna know where all the EU players went? I have a webpage to show you where they are right now if you like.

  • Simpljack wrote: »
    I only agree with your first point:
    1. Ports need to return to the towers on EV and safe path reopened.

    EV feels so depressingly dead since the changes. It's the draft action and that's about it.

    It's a population problem. I hope the (1?) broadsword employee goes into the office everyday thinking how he/she can bring the population up. Game is one more bird server opening event from being unplayable.

    Agreed, the towers/MGs used to be a good source of small man/stealth action.
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • puter wrote: »
    I'm coming at this from a "the game is almost 20 years old" approach. You either learn how to play or you don't. This game requires coordination between players to be enjoyable. Face rolling over ones keyboard isn't a viable way to play.

    No you require coordination to enjoy the game, New people only require something to do thats fun and as a side effect they will group to make things easier or quicker.

    This is not about what makes the game fun for you or me its about getting and keeping new people and if people like you and me hate the game after or find it boring so be it.

    Making changes because they want 8man action has caused a noticable drop in the people we need, new and returning players, without them down goes the population.

    I made a post about hib stun pinning Mids and Albs into keeps causing people to have no fun and get frustrated BS listened and tried what i thought was a good idea but that has not worked.

    So here we are again, give casuals easy things to do and places to go and the long term fixed is what it has always been FIX HIB STUN AT KEEPS

    If @John_Broadsword wants the keep fights thats what he has to do if Herorius wont attack a keep anymore then so be it he will adapt.

    I seen a very interesting chart with players numbers for another place.. wanna know where all the EU players went? I have a webpage to show you where they are right now if you like.

    While I would love to have more players in the game, I also don't want players that demand the game mold to them. DAoC isn't an easy game to play nor does it need to be. This is the direction that the developers have decided they want to take their IP, for better or worse. You either adapt to it or quit. I think it's abundantly clear at this point that Broadsword has no intention to maximize their DAoC profits.

    If you truly believe casted stun is the bane of the game, then by all means convince the developers to remove it altogether. It likely won't change the perceived problems you're experiencing.

    You're also over two years late on that chart. This isn't new.
  • puter wrote: »
    puter wrote: »
    I'm coming at this from a "the game is almost 20 years old" approach. You either learn how to play or you don't. This game requires coordination between players to be enjoyable. Face rolling over ones keyboard isn't a viable way to play.

    No you require coordination to enjoy the game, New people only require something to do thats fun and as a side effect they will group to make things easier or quicker.


    While I would love to have more players in the game, I also don't want players that demand the game mold to them. DAoC isn't an easy game to play nor does it need to be. This is the direction that the developers have decided they want to take their IP, for better or worse. You either adapt to it or quit. I think it's abundantly clear at this point that Broadsword has no intention to maximize their DAoC profits.

    If you truly believe casted stun is the bane of the game, then by all means convince the developers to remove it altogether. It likely won't change the perceived problems you're experiencing.

    You're also over two years late on that chart. This isn't new.


    surprisingly accurate.

    the developers have decided to go with a system that is only viable if running a perfectly designed full group where everybody is at max gear and max RR.

    That means that 99.99% of the playerbase is left out.
    Consequently the game is dead.
    No idea why they are doing that, but OK, not my business.

    Never the less i am in touch since about 20 years and would love to have 20 more...
    I will never group, i will never play what you call " competitive ".

    Please Please give us Classic, even just a Classic-BG will do...

    Mahv

  • puter wrote: »
    While I would love to have more players in the game, I also don't want players that demand the game mold to them. DAoC isn't an easy game to play nor does it need to be. This is the direction that the developers have decided they want to take their IP, for better or worse. You either adapt to it or quit. I think it's abundantly clear at this point that Broadsword has no intention to maximize their DAoC profits.

    If you truly believe casted stun is the bane of the game, then by all means convince the developers to remove it altogether. It likely won't change the perceived problems you're experiencing.

    You're also over two years late on that chart. This isn't new.

    Noone is asking for the game to be molded into something new only make it more fun for non 5+ years vets.

    All I saying is the game is not accessible for casual, returning and new players.

    Like it or not people need something to do other than /lfg for 2 hours while getting farmed trying to do box quest near folley, i mean wtf would you make people in kings gear go near Bow town? nice welcoming place that it is.

    As for the normal stun thing.

    I am not saying they should take away casted stun, I am saying it has to be neutralized in KEEP sieges otherwise the defending realm cannot put up an affective defense/offense.

    This is where you say that I need a good group and heals and purge and stun feedback and how they have the put in the obelisk and I reply all of which mean exactly zero for poeple without purge, stun feedback, or healers with LoS.

    There is a reason I @John_Broadsword not @puter cuz its him I am speaking too, I am not trying to convince you even tho i am happy to explain it to you again and again and again.


  • puter wrote: »
    While I would love to have more players in the game, I also don't want players that demand the game mold to them. DAoC isn't an easy game to play nor does it need to be. This is the direction that the developers have decided they want to take their IP, for better or worse. You either adapt to it or quit. I think it's abundantly clear at this point that Broadsword has no intention to maximize their DAoC profits.

    If you truly believe casted stun is the bane of the game, then by all means convince the developers to remove it altogether. It likely won't change the perceived problems you're experiencing.

    You're also over two years late on that chart. This isn't new.

    Noone is asking for the game to be molded into something new only make it more fun for non 5+ years vets.

    All I saying is the game is not accessible for casual, returning and new players.

    Like it or not people need something to do other than /lfg for 2 hours while getting farmed trying to do box quest near folley, i mean wtf would you make people in kings gear go near Bow town? nice welcoming place that it is.

    As for the normal stun thing.

    I am not saying they should take away casted stun, I am saying it has to be neutralized in KEEP sieges otherwise the defending realm cannot put up an affective defense/offense.

    This is where you say that I need a good group and heals and purge and stun feedback and how they have the put in the obelisk and I reply all of which mean exactly zero for poeple without purge, stun feedback, or healers with LoS.

    There is a reason I @John_Broadsword not @puter cuz its him I am speaking too, I am not trying to convince you even tho i am happy to explain it to you again and again and again.


    I get it. You want the bar lowered so casuals have a "chance". I just don't think you realize how low that bar needs to go. Broadsword would have to do more than just remove casted stun in keeps. There's already someone calling for classic in here which is a much easier version of the game to play than what we have now...and it still had casted stun. Hmmmmm.
  • edited June 16 PM
    Changing hib stun will change nothing. If you dont work together and build groups, you have no chance against hib bg. Btw, every realm has casted stun.
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • Kroko wrote: »
    Changing hib stun will change nothing. If you dont work together and build groups, you have no chance against hib bg. Btw, every realm has casted stun.

    If nothing will change then there is no problem negating it at keep sieges.
  • Completely missed his point, and the point that apparently needs to be repeated for a lot of zergers... Build semi structured groups and actually coordinate with each other
  • edited June 16 PM
    Nope I get his point but I have already explained how "get gud" is not the answer for alot of new or returning people as you cannot get a good comp group in less than 1 hour on a good day even when the population was alot higher.

    I am simply stating that if as he stated it will change nothing to negate stun around keeps then Broadsword have nothing to lose stopping it.

    All this is really besides the point currently..

    The EV and Solo changes have pushed many casuals and new players away and even though I tried to point this out in a previous post they continue to encourage 8 man over casual play.

    In the long term as in after they have atleast restored porting to EV towers and reopened safeport they should then turn their focus to the problem that I have pointed out before and THEY HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED.

    Hib Casted stuns in KEEP sieges cause Mid/Alb to be pinned in keep until dead and it is no fun so people log off and do not play.

    Even outnumbered Alb's can defend against Mid's and visa versa whoever wins or loses everyone has fun, hell in a three way fight Hib/Mid/Alb all have fun because Hibs cant just stand at the wall with 4-5 other stun nukers /nearest target and hold stun for ez rps.

    Oh and just for Minibard. NERF INSTANT AMNESIA!!1
    Post edited by Stoopiduser on
  • puter wrote: »
    puter wrote: »
    I'm coming at this from a "the game is almost 20 years old" approach. You either learn how to play or you don't. This game requires coordination between players to be enjoyable. Face rolling over ones keyboard isn't a viable way to play.

    No you require coordination to enjoy the game, New people only require something to do thats fun and as a side effect they will group to make things easier or quicker.

    This is not about what makes the game fun for you or me its about getting and keeping new people and if people like you and me hate the game after or find it boring so be it.

    Making changes because they want 8man action has caused a noticable drop in the people we need, new and returning players, without them down goes the population.

    I made a post about hib stun pinning Mids and Albs into keeps causing people to have no fun and get frustrated BS listened and tried what i thought was a good idea but that has not worked.

    So here we are again, give casuals easy things to do and places to go and the long term fixed is what it has always been FIX HIB STUN AT KEEPS

    If @John_Broadsword wants the keep fights thats what he has to do if Herorius wont attack a keep anymore then so be it he will adapt.

    I seen a very interesting chart with players numbers for another place.. wanna know where all the EU players went? I have a webpage to show you where they are right now if you like.

    While I would love to have more players in the game, I also don't want players that demand the game mold to them. DAoC isn't an easy game to play nor does it need to be. This is the direction that the developers have decided they want to take their IP, for better or worse. You either adapt to it or quit. I think it's abundantly clear at this point that Broadsword has no intention to maximize their DAoC profits.

    If you truly believe casted stun is the bane of the game, then by all means convince the developers to remove it altogether. It likely won't change the perceived problems you're experiencing.

    You're also over two years late on that chart. This isn't new.

    If you do not bring in new customers your business will fail .. End of Story . So from an EA perspective (who still owns the game) If its not making money they will shut it down. EA has already announced they are trimming the fat on some of their games maybe DAOC might be one of them. The reality is there will be no new classics server because they don't have the pop to sustain it. It seems that they are strictly on maintenance mode now. One thing they could do is move the boxes and plants from the bow towns it should be an easy fix. The hib stun well its fine imo. The game is a 32 bit game its just dang old and peeps want a shiny game with customer service your not getting that with DAOC.

  • how is it Mids can take the Hibs keeps/towers. But Alb just cant seem to do it. Even Casuals in BG should have multiple toons to help a group out instead of insisting on playing a certain class. I have joined a BG group in Alb were there were 8 people in group and no one healing but a pally. I switched from my sorc to friar to help the group.
    they dont need the tower ports on EV. I dont care if they opened Safeport back up though. But couldnt port if tower was flamed.
  • Minibard wrote: »
    how is it Mids can take the Hibs keeps/towers. But Alb just cant seem to do it. Even Casuals in BG should have multiple toons to help a group out instead of insisting on playing a certain class. I have joined a BG group in Alb were there were 8 people in group and no one healing but a pally. I switched from my sorc to friar to help the group.
    they dont need the tower ports on EV. I dont care if they opened Safeport back up though. But couldnt port if tower was flamed.

    Mids have 20+ tanks, siege buff and a BG that is together unlike the 45 in Alb BG and the 23 + 2 minst with Rescu.

    This is not about BG leaders its got everything to do with fun, the problem became glaring in EU prime but it was ignored.

    I was with the Mid EU BG the other night and it was hilarious watching the exact same thing play out over there, without around equal or greater numbers you cannot defend and have fun against Hib stun nuke.

    There are some differences to be fair Mid Has stormlords and those storms were pushed away so even that Stun field was useless.

  • Oh, are we pretending that stun in keeps ISN'T good?

    Oh.
  • Enkertons wrote: »
    Oh, are we pretending that stun in keeps ISN'T good?

    Heh yeah didnt you know? Stun at sieges makes no difference and it wouldnt improve siege fights if it were negated well except for Hibs having to do more than spam nearest target and mash Stun for kills, apparently.
  • One person has explicitly said it wouldn't make a difference. Nobody else said it wasn't good. Making semi structured groups isn't "getting gud," it's making sure you have the core classes so you don't die to a FG in a 30+ person BG... But some will never adapt (all of Rescu BG) and blame it on the company because they aren't making every class the same so people can't heal with scouts or have 5 wizards in a group with no heals and wonder why they constantly die
  • Also, if they reduced the auto target range back to what it was originally, this wouldn't be as big of an issue
  • Can you really not see how the stun thing is a problem?

    I mean taking a step back and ignoring the quality of the players, the group they are in, or even the BG they run with surely you see how its a problem that hibs get to shutdown defense when they have equal or less numbers.

    IRC, FT, and Creaper hold off or even kill BG's on all realms attacking a keep without relying on the stun as they have great teamwork after years of being together/great players so I concede it can be done but if you think about the new players just trying to contribute in a BG there is next to nothing they know/can do to get a few rps and have fun against it.

    [Group] Randomnoob: Dead again.. I couldnt move for some reason
    [Group] Randomwizard: you are getting stunned, try to get out of LoS
    [Group] Randomnoob: what is LoS?
    [Group] Randomwizard: Line of sight.
    [Group] Randomnoob: Dead again..
    [Group] Randomhealer: OOR. Where are you?

    <Randomnoob leaves the battlegroup>
    <Randomnoob leaves the group>

    Time for some other game..
  • Sadly, it's not the stun in that scenario. Is it a contributor? Sure, but this game has a fairly high learning curve. Between panning, paying attention to multiple things in a fight, a new player will always die in that sort of scenario. If they don't even know what LoS is, chances are they would've died without the stun anyways
  • edited June 17 PM
    Okay, so EA/Broadsword has picked a direction which will soon lead to the death of the game---but that is their choice.

    Obviously they have Not chosen to go for max appeal and max profits. Instead they have followed their three-way RVR high-competition model, which will exclude a large number of players and make the bar exceedingly high for new players.

    So be it.

    DAoC is a tough game. To play well you need to play a lot and to really learn a character. As people have said, if you can only handle a couple of quickbars of skills, you will die often and easily. The game is aimed at the veterans who are committed to the game--vets who have learned the skills, use the tools, and are quicker/better coordinated/more knowledgeable almost than it is possible to be without a few years' experience---which is hard to get as a noob, because all you will get is rolled.

    But .... that is a Feature, not a problem ... for the people who love the game.

    I learned many years ago that as I got older and slower, and as I could no longer play for hours a day, days at a time, I couldn't keep up in RvR. Players who were more skilled--and yes, better equipped, but the best gear in the world doesn't matter when you are face-down---were killing me, and I wasn't able to play my role in a group, so the group would follow me down.

    So be it.

    I'd love it if EA-Mythic-Broadsword-whoever would open a server with ongoing PvE play, like LotRO, for instance .... and also RvR for new players .... of course, some of the RvR titans would show up and roll the noobs endlessly and spoil it .... but in a different world, players who really loved pure RvR would get skilled, and transfer to the regular servers and play among equals, while those who have less time, slower twitch response, less talent at gaming, could still have Fun, as stoopiduser keeps mentioning.

    DAoC offers a very specific form of fun, and not a lot of people can enjoy it. It is for virtual adrenaline junkies, sort of ... high-risk/high-reward high-speed gameplay for the truly dedicated.

    Most of us simply aren't that dedicated, or that quick, or that coordinated, so we get rolled .... just like any sport, the natural athletes and the people who train harder rise to the top. Here, however, there is no JV team or junior league.

    And that, I think, is sort of what people want ... some people (myself included.) I want a way to play DAoC with people of my own caliber. I want a JV server, an Amateur league ... a place where an old guy who wants to kill a few hours once a month can have Fun playing this game. This game used to be Fun. Now it is less fun for most players.

    Again ... so be it. You can't always get what you want.

    I doubt whoever decides where the game is going is willing to make major capital investments in totally recreating a version of the game for people who confess to being casuals .... by their nature, they are not a constant revenue stream. i don't see the owners investing in DAoC and taking it into the mainstream, where a lot of people could play it with some degree of success, while the hardcores could still have their servers ..... too much capital investment, too little certainty of payoff.

    So, yes ... DAoC population is going to shrink until some day the game probably gets shut down. EA-Broadsword knows this and accepts it---and meanwhile, they are going to cater to the players who have been most devoted. I see this as unfortunate for me---but an Honorable path for the game devs. In a sense, the game owners have decided to serve the players who give the most--and that seems right to me.

    I wish I could play DAoC the way I play other games---with a measure of success, despite my limitations. However, DAoC is Not that game. It is a highly competitive, high-demand game for the (I hesitate to use the word) elite gamer. Nothing wrong with that.

    Are there balance issue? Yes, because the high-power gamers will lay awake nights thinking of ways to use the game mechanics to get an edge, and the devs will only respond once the newest tricks are widespread. Is it still a fun game for most of the hardcore players? Seems to be.

    Unless I or someone else can invest megabucks ... DAoC is Not going to change radically, I don't think. So, instead of complaining, I can keep playing a little, and when I do venture into the frontier, I can play my part---feeding RPs to stealthers while looking for a zerg, by and large, or getting rolled almost carelessly by passing 8-mans.

    You can't always get what you want .... but you can always leave. I have no one to blame but myself if I keep coming back and dying until I get disgusted. The game is not designed for me. I can accept that or I can be willfully ignorant. Or ... I can rearrange my life and spend all day trying to build my skills so I can compete. Either way, my choice. EA-Broadsword made their choices. Other players make theirs. It is what it is.

    I can mourn the loss of the fun DAoC days, but at least I can remember them. But I cannot live in the present while clinging to the past. The game is what it is. Play it or play something else. Or invest in the game, make a lot of new PvE content, attract more noobs, set up simpler BGs for simpler players, and have what you seem to want--DAoC-Lite. I'd be there. But I can't invest the big bucks. If you cannot either .... it is what it is. Accept reality. Find what you need where it is, instead of trying to make others change into what you want.

    And if you ever do build DAoC-Lite, please let me know. I'm in.
    Post edited by Tarkus on
  • What would prevent the better players from playing said server? If that's where the population is, why not play there?
  • i seem to remember when the "zergs" got bitched at for running the 8's off the island.....
    and the hero zerg doesnt seem to attack a semi 1-2 group of defenders, that have siege up :)
  • and please increase the range of minny stun ....
  • And here is a prime example of a "Casual" who knows the game, enjoys the game but no longer finds it fun and frankly given into the inevitable death of the game as Broadsword continue to push competitive play at the expense of casual players without fixing the issue that has been made obvious by Hib having numbers. Hero in EU prime and Jedi in US prime until he quit.

    Well I am here to say all hope is not lost!

    You can have both! :smile:
  • It's a conversation that will forever go in circles.

    Daoc has taken the competitive road, by increasing the quantity of abilities and limiting classes to very specific roles that you need to know and perform relatively well in to be somewhat competitive.

    You can take casted stun out of the game, will it suddenly lead to massive amounts of new players coming in? Hibernia is the easiest realm to perform in partly because of that casted stun on casters. So you take out a feature that makes Hibernia "casual" friendly.

    If you want a simpler game that has enough difference for it to actually be suitable for the casual crowd, then you need to take out abilities, gear, etc essentially reducing it to a classic experience.

    This means a new server, which BS is apparently working on (no updates in the last 3 years) and that will 100% kill Ywain (BS said they wouldn't release said server if it kills Ywain).

    taking stormlord out of NS is probably a smarter solution than removing casted stun alltogether, but that won't change anything imo. Albs will still die to hibs because rescu BG is beyond saving, and mids will still wipe to catapults because ppl don't like playing skalds in siege fights.
  • hib will always be the "easier" realm to play----

    bard-druid-warden and fill :)
  • Shoke wrote: »

    You can take casted stun out of the game, will it suddenly lead to massive amounts of new players coming in? Hibernia is the easiest realm to perform in partly because of that casted stun on casters. So you take out a feature that makes Hibernia "casual" friendly.

    The immediate problem is huge decline in casual player since solo and ev port changes.

    and directly after that something still needs to be done but Hibs being OP in keep seiges.

    For the record I agree taking Hib stun will not immediately bring in lots of new people but it would increase the fun to be had in the game. john clearly stated he wanted more keep fights, more courtyard fights well unless there are 3 realms there Hibs just shutdown any defense. nearest enemy /face /stun face roll for rps.

    If its fun for everyone then people will return/stay/play.


  • someone will have to explain how casuals losing direct port to EV would lead them to quit, like you can port when solo, you can port when grouped, just can't port when in a zerg because it'll randomly port you in different locations.
  • Just feels like the casual zergers are mad that it's not as easy as it was to roll over 8 mans on EV
  • edited June 17 PM
    Shoke wrote: »
    someone will have to explain how casuals losing direct port to EV would lead them to quit, like you can port when solo, you can port when grouped, just can't port when in a zerg because it'll randomly port you in different locations.

    It was place casual grouped or ungrouped players could dip a toe in and make some rps and FUN or get farmed by normally an 8 man.

    BG's would roll in a wipe everything like a new dawn but casuals would come back cuz they had some fun and would in turn build confidence go take another tower on EV, before you knew it they had a terrible PUG going so would try and kill small mans.. win or lose they would get better and try to group more with the same people.. and so on..

    Currently port to keep hope a BG hits or a FG gets to close and pulls guards.. Oh wait there is almost no 8 mans near keeps so IF they venture out they get rolled by RR5-12, 1-8 group but hey they can port to port to bow town collect boxes maybe have a 1 on 1 but you get insta gibbed by someone for not accepting the fight with RR12 light tank, hey lets try porting to EV maybe the docks or get plants.. nope 8 man rolls up starved for rps.. Bye Mr Casual nothing for you here.

    Stealthers would feed on them, but they would still get some fun! they came back

    FG's with steathlore would farm the stealthers and casuals and get some fun! they came back

    Set 8 mans would come back all the damned time for the easy rps and get some fun! they came back almost every 5 mins!

    And then Caledonia everyone was in a tizzy "Oh isnt 8 man great!, lets do that!" I count myself as one of those that thought it was a good idea, then BS made the changes to ports.. casual numbers dropped.. BS thought it cool 8man love it lets keep going.. casual numbers drop through the floor.. lets do another Caledonia Event! Oh numbers are still dropping, Bah its just the summer causing a problem. WAKE UP.
    Post edited by Stoopiduser on
  • @John_Broadsword

    Casual and New players have been leaving or left since recent solo and 8 man focused changes.

    1. Ports need to return to the towers on EV and safe path reopened.

    2. Hib stun at keeps MUST be neutralized.

    3. Nightshades can and do climb in keeps and move fumble storms stopping any defense at outer oil's of keeps (Hero BG specific) so need to changed from stormlord to battlemaster.

    4. IRC and the better groups are using solo ports to get around realms faster than should be allowed, stop it.

    5. BG's are not running at all times in NF on any realm there needs to be something for New and Returning people to do for FUN in frontiers leave doppels and maybe an enemy guard/tower/keep quest for RP+BP in groups as the population is so low.

    I am sick and tired of explaining how Hib stun IN KEEPS is a problem but I will keep trying.

    Ever noticed how Mids have a BG full of tanks but dont climb into keeps?

    I'll tell you why, Hib's stun AT KEEPS shut down any meaningful defense or offense also known as FUN.

    Now I was pleased to see changes to Stormlord and I thought MAYBE that would help fix things and results were promising however population has dropped even further and as Stormlord is pointless in openfield fights noone well maybe a few players spec it and nothing has changed.

    Caledonia was a boon for 8 man but you made a simple error in thinking everyone would jump on board for cool 8 man action, to be clear 8 man is the BEST PART OF RvR but if you cant get into one of those fabled l33t 8 man setups you are going to be farmed by said 8's in a PUG and have no FUN.

    Players need fun even when there is no BG or atleast until there is one.

    DAoC is a Game and should be FUN (Not the same as simple or easy) not hard work.

    1. ports, towers, ya put them back or delete the island. More movement on the island caused more people encountering each other, aka more action. If you are going to choke the crap out of the island then delete it and move the action to the three realms.
    2. All three realms have stun. Pac healers get awsome stun, aoe stun even. Shut your damn pie hole and let them be pac. Stop complaining when a healer specs pac and doesnt heal. It's their job. Clerics, clerics get stun. And smite clerics can hit hella hard. Let them do their damn job and stop complaining that they aren't healing.
    3. All of about three nightshades spec stormlord. When on mid or alb im usually the only damn stormlord in the bg. So start specing stormlord so you can counter the enemy pushing your storms.
    4. Yes exploiting the port system is crap. Need to put a timer on solo zone porting if you're going to keep the solo zones. 15 minutes before you can port after disbanding from group. Problem solved.
    5. Quests and such in frontier to keep people out there, good to have. Leave the dopple quest in, just don't jack up the rp through the roof. Don't need people pve'ing their way to rr10, we have gaheris for that.

    Actually, solo zones need to go. Install solo and eight man instances. Set up a que that you join and it randomly sticks you in an instance with other solos or groups. Eight man instances can use battleground maps, you don't have to put a bunch of work into creating new areas. Solo instance could use the ML10 instance, cool arena look to it. Turning the game on it's head to satisfy ten percent of the population is insane. There has to be a solution that doesn't kill the game.
  • Casual vs. 1337 (that's leet) Casuals get to know the game running in the bg's. Veterans form eight man groups with proper class setups. A good eight man can wreak havoc on a bg, this is to be expected. The problem is that the population has dropped to a point that the bg's don't have enough people to fend off a good eight man. It's solely a population issue.
  • edited June 17 PM
    best way to do some pressure on stun gun hib casters on a roof is a simple Nearsight spammer...^^ ..... but why easy when we can make it complicated..^^
    Post edited by Omarius on
    In rememberin on old EU logress server i like to say...

    Running full High Gear equipped 8 men group,
    over some causuals in random Drop Armor,
    is not really a fight or Art and requirre no skill......
    We call it Sport...^^

  • I think the biggest complaint is Hib having 3 DPS casters with stun. If they were to change anything then they should limit base line stun to ments and that would give each realm 1 primary class with castable stun.
    As far as stun in keep take/defense, didn't they already address that issue with the obelisk for the main keep and the stun negating storm in stormlord?
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • edited June 17 PM
    stunn 1500 range..... NS 2100.... i didnt see the problem.. problem is thats all so greedy for a kill that no one do pressure on the roof casters...

    and thats not the main issue why population was goin down....

    from my old grp feedback was ( as i asked if the wanna reopen too)....

    game is not more in german avaible was for some a reason to leave
    toxic community behavior.....
    mass of MHB in solo play...
    stealth zerg,
    massive class changes....
    (we warned 2013 -14 that this will be massive fail and push alot player out of game...)

    Alot grps left the game so no enemys, so the buddys dont wanna run around 3 hours for 2 fights, and rest time be bored or try to escape the "zergs" that runs behind u over 3 zones..cause they kill all enemy action ^^
    (thx for the 8v8 zone crashers zerg)

    Macro keyboard use allowing
    Macro teams allowed

    no time for the game
    Wife and kids

    Feeling to be to slow for all the new bling bling toys
    (with all the medic my Doc feed me i feel this way too some days)

    Everytime u take a look back in game u need to be complete new equipped...
    and that the same happend whats killed the EU servers...
    no learning curve by some player about it..

    without enemys u cant play the game....
    so is a good idea to let them no fun and no reason to log in....
    but ok its not against the rules..^^


    thats so the feedback i get from my old player pool

    but noi one say QQ the hibs can stun gun..^^

    P.S. i want an option to get the dragons stuff back....
    and that the dragons slayer Armour is now getting damaged by reapair
    (another useless change)
    is not funny too...^^ all my PvE toons have it......
    so would be nice to be able to replace it or make that s like before

    bad enough that my necro is now a "normal" caster....
    Post edited by Omarius on
    In rememberin on old EU logress server i like to say...

    Running full High Gear equipped 8 men group,
    over some causuals in random Drop Armor,
    is not really a fight or Art and requirre no skill......
    We call it Sport...^^

  • Bringing back ruined keeps should suffice if you're just looking for a place to congregate.
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