What is IRC doing, that you can't?

So the question I pose to you, all realms; What is IRC doing that you can't? Why are they the only group flat rolling the BG's of each realm? If told not to go for a relic or we will swap realms and stop you; Why can't you overcome one group? They seem to be casting while running, being hit (without MOC'ing) thru melee or magic, not take damage below 5%. All these things we observe in game and they seem to be the only ones who know how to do it. I asked Xuu one time, he said "Don't play a caster". Doesn't seem like he's up for sharing to see if anyone else can compete. I understand it's seems like easy mode and I'm sure there some exploits in there somewhere if not a hack just an exploit they are using without letting BS know so they can't fix it. Well that's my two cents worth of questions for you all. If you want something done about it you need to let those in charge,@John_Broadsword @Carol_Broadsword @Lea_Broadsword, know so they can observe it and fix it. Yeah some will say I'm salty about them but if it's not worth going out and can't open a tower or keep before getting rolled in three shots with them on, might as well not even play. Ohh well I want to know your thoughts and experiences and would love to hear some tips from the IRC crowd. Thanks all.
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Comments

  • edited February 3 PM
    I agree completely with Leoj!
    I play with him and noticed the same things. And to add to that, in all the years i played DAoC, I've never seen players in a group, and not talkng about the healing class here, make 200k+ RP's in a little more then an hour of game play. Or even someone logging off after 3 hours of gameplay on Hibernia with 600k+ RP's!!
    That makes no sens, even with all the buffs, all the items and relics bonuses!
    Can you give me a good and honest explaination that makes sens about that, and tell me that they are not using somekind of exploits or hacks?

    Thank you!

    Cripptonite - Albion
    Post edited by Cripp on
  • Easy. I have a life.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • Tyrantanic wrote: »
    Easy. I have a life.

    ??? Was that an explanation? You are unclear in your post.
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  • edited February 3 PM
    You think it's a coincidence that one realm is being played almost exclusively?
    Post edited by Enkertons on
  • @Tyrantanic I understand now that what your doing vs the IRC is that you have a life. Sorry was my confusion.

    @Enkertons I have hibs and do know that it's easier to make PUGs work there with all the utility. I do see a difference in the IRC play vs the set groups that play all the time together and the IRC out performs them. I do know it seems BS favors Hib but it's said to be balanced. Seems Hibs holding the relics would say otherwise and with the ease Hero PVE's all the keeps but that could be Alb population times.

    To everyone who reads and posts thank you for taking the time to address this otherwise I like others don't feel it's worth playing if you're rolled, even with 3 groups with you, when you go to take a tower or keep vs one group that seems to have some edge up their sleeves.
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  • edited February 3 PM
    It's absurd people still think they cheat/exploit. They been around for long, and some point even streamed to see people what to do. The reason they crap on everyone is game knowledge, effort to do good, and experience playing together.

    Simply thats what we have left of 8 community, they could be challenged, but most solid groups out there besides IRC mostly consists of some PuGs of decent enough players. Obviously then they very rarely can give them a decent-enough fight, and since PuGs are not consistent, it's a rare sight to oppose IRC.

    It's just what it is, if want to do smth about it, gather good players, who give effort to improve and willing to play in more set time frames with core people. Wish it could be done, but right now I feel like thats hardly manageable due most of good players thats not with them rather enjoy freedom of just jumping in any Pugs, even Saki/Xuu pugs.
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • edited February 3 PM
    First the champion debuff need a solid nerf , second pboe dmg 425 value are insanely op , they have acces to banelord with zone of unmana and demoralisation combined these ml with champ debuff its crazy .
    Post edited by Hellblast on
  • edited February 3 PM
    They cheat of course. At least that is what everyone says. So I say it too.

    Honestly why talk about IRC all time? Its getting boring.
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • The fact that people still complain about IRC (1 group really) in 2020 is hilarious
  • And of course chanter cloak use X 2
  • Gavner wrote: »
    It's absurd people still think they cheat/exploit. They been around for long, and some point even streamed to see people what to do. The reason they crap on everyone is game knowledge, effort to do good, and experience playing together.

    Simply thats what we have left of 8 community, they could be challenged, but most solid groups out there besides IRC mostly consists of some PuGs of decent enough players. Obviously then they very rarely can give them a decent-enough fight, and since PuGs are not consistent, it's a rare sight to oppose IRC.

    It's just what it is, if want to do smth about it, gather good players, who give effort to improve and willing to play in more set time frames with core people. Wish it could be done, but right now I feel like thats hardly manageable due most of good players thats not with them rather enjoy freedom of just jumping in any Pugs, even Saki/Xuu pugs.

    Thanks for posting @Gavner I would like to see that stream of how they showed ppl what to do to play like them. I do run in a set group Wednesday thru Sunday most every week with folks who have been playing since the game came out. Are there any groups on their level? Has anyone gone up against them and won 50% of the time? I'd like to hear their strategy. Thanks
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  • Hellblast wrote: »
    First the champion debuff need a solid nerf , second pboe dmg 425 value are insanely op , they have acces to banelord with zone of unmana and demoralisation combined these ml with champ debuff its crazy .
    Hellblast wrote: »
    And of course chanter cloak use X 2

    Thanks for the input, I know a lot of players say the same about the way some characters are setup and some of the Class Cloaks are crap uses while others are OP'd.
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  • Kroko wrote: »
    They cheat of course. At least that is what everyone says. So I say it too.

    Honestly why talk about IRC all time? Its getting boring.
    The fact that people still complain about IRC (1 group really) in 2020 is hilarious

    Tried to sound like I wasn't complaining but more on the interested side of what ppl had to say about the matter. Don't know all this talking about IRC because this is the first time I've created a thread. Would like to hear some knowledge sharing to go around about how to increase from a decent player to an untouchable. Fell free to spread the info on what to do.

    Thanks to both of you for posting.
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  • I am so tired of the realm of bolt range mezz, bolt range root(on the same class) cabby pets you can't cc, and theurgists complaining about how OP hibs are. Don't forget heretics either... Learn to play your classes and coordinate properly as a team instead of just blaming hax when you lose. Not to mention irc usually needs support of another grp or two to whipe a Zerg, if they don't have it they get overwhelmed just like anyone else. Maybe the solution for you is to grp up with less then 20 so you actually understand class utilities and know how to counter your enemies. But I guess blindly rolling over lesser numbers breaking cc and not killing speed warps is fun for some people
  • scerff wrote: »
    I am so tired of the realm of bolt range mezz, bolt range root(on the same class) cabby pets you can't cc, and theurgists complaining about how OP hibs are. Don't forget heretics either... Learn to play your classes and coordinate properly as a team instead of just blaming hax when you lose. Not to mention irc usually needs support of another grp or two to whipe a Zerg, if they don't have it they get overwhelmed just like anyone else. Maybe the solution for you is to grp up with less then 20 so you actually understand class utilities and know how to counter your enemies. But I guess blindly rolling over lesser numbers breaking cc and not killing speed warps is fun for some people

    Thanks for your contribution on the topic.
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  • Imagine you have a friend. Imagine your friend has a computer as good as yours. Imagine there is a program that allows you to control your friends computer. Imagine you have hardware which gives you the ability to do multiple things with the computers. Imagine yourself using two sorcs to mezz,root and blast the hell out of other players with one click. Is your head twinkling yet?
  • Does the general public not know how to make assist macros? Pro tip: /macro assist /macro ass /assist %t
  • That's considered high level play @scerff.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • well hot damn i learned something new--you need to assist for aoe and ability dump......

    but same old leet, get gud, skilled play by your own rules peeps...
  • My tip is to play tanker because it is easier for less skilled players to hold W and push down casters than coordinate on any other setup.

    We don’t cheat and I welcome @John_Broadsword @Carol_Broadsword to join my group any night and stream on the official discord. I pug 1-3 players every night. We have a base pool of players that can carry a few pugs if we don’t put them on difficult or super important classes and coach them in the moment.

    We had Frappuccino (before he sold) stream a few nights so people can learn how to think and act in 8v8. Check his twitch videos.

    Bottom line, most people just don’t understand how to play this game and understand the tactics/strategy.

    There is no competition for us 8v8 which is why now we mostly fight the zergs. Creaper grp is the closest competition and have gotten exponentially better of the last few months but they stopped setting up and just dodge us so we have stopped giving them advice and pointers on how to improve.
  • edited February 3 PM
    Leoj, I've noticed they seem to cast while moving as well. They also are so hard to interrupt. They'll walk into my PBAOE and without Moc...somehow win the interrupt war and kill me before I can even MOC. All while seemingly not even stopping their movement (I get lag ..I know what lagging after hitting face looks like...this isn't that). Now I'm not ready to say they exploit but they certainly pull of some stuff I've never seen others be able to do.

    Their healing is incredible. I think that's what makes them so tough... even when you get the drop and are tearing into them they just wont die.
    Post edited by Mace80 on
  • Cartoan wrote: »
    Imagine you have a friend. Imagine your friend has a computer as good as yours. Imagine there is a program that allows you to control your friends computer. Imagine you have hardware which gives you the ability to do multiple things with the computers. Imagine yourself using two sorcs to mezz,root and blast the hell out of other players with one click. Is your head twinkling yet?

    Mind boggeling :smiley: Thanks for the input.
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  • scerff wrote: »
    Does the general public not know how to make assist macros? Pro tip: /macro assist /macro ass /assist %t

    Most do know that one and if not the first time I hear they don't I pass the info along. Thanks for input on the topic though, keep them coming you may have some info I don't know yet.
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  • Tyrantanic wrote: »
    That's considered high level play @scerff.
    47el wrote: »
    well hot damn i learned something new--you need to assist for aoe and ability dump......

    but same old leet, get gud, skilled play by your own rules peeps...

    Thanks for your input folks.
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  • xuu wrote: »
    My tip is to play tanker because it is easier for less skilled players to hold W and push down casters than coordinate on any other setup.

    We don’t cheat and I welcome @John_Broadsword @Carol_Broadsword to join my group any night and stream on the official discord. I pug 1-3 players every night. We have a base pool of players that can carry a few pugs if we don’t put them on difficult or super important classes and coach them in the moment.

    We had Frappuccino (before he sold) stream a few nights so people can learn how to think and act in 8v8. Check his twitch videos.

    Bottom line, most people just don’t understand how to play this game and understand the tactics/strategy.

    There is no competition for us 8v8 which is why now we mostly fight the zergs. Creaper grp is the closest competition and have gotten exponentially better of the last few months but they stopped setting up and just dodge us so we have stopped giving them advice and pointers on how to improve.

    @xuu Thank you for posting the info. I was not calling it a hack or a cheat but an exploit in the game. I wanted to post the question what your doing that others can't do or don't know to do. I do appreciate the information and will check out Frappuccino's videos. Creapers group is also good but we can overcome them and have done a 40/60 win balance when we've fought them. Your right most have been lulled into a soft existence coasting relying on others to pick up the slack. Running with Alicetale/Limwris, good players in group in the mornings on my merc got him to 6L8 fighting Creaper's and Ishimare's groups. Some players definately outplay others and are on a very different level. I'm up for being one of your PUG players to see about tactics/strategies that your team uses. I'm Follytrolly#8319 on discord, again thank you for your info on the topic.
    Leoj line of characters Alb
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  • Mace80 wrote: »
    Leoj, I've noticed they seem to cast while moving as well. They also are so hard to interrupt. They'll walk into my PBAOE and without Moc...somehow win the interrupt war and kill me before I can even MOC. All while seemingly not even stopping their movement (I get lag ..I know what lagging after hitting face looks like...this isn't that). Now I'm not ready to say they exploit but they certainly pull of some stuff I've never seen others be able to do.

    Their healing is incredible. I think that's what makes them so tough... even when you get the drop and are tearing into them they just wont die.

    Thanks for the comment. They are hard to interrupt, dropped Freezing Ground and was PBAOE'ing on my Necro and they cast right thru it. Will be looking forward to learning how to play at that level.
    Leoj line of characters Alb
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  • Mace80 wrote: »
    Leoj, I've noticed they seem to cast while moving as well. They also are so hard to interrupt. They'll walk into my PBAOE and without Moc...somehow win the interrupt war and kill me before I can even MOC. All while seemingly not even stopping their movement (I get lag ..I know what lagging after hitting face looks like...this isn't that). Now I'm not ready to say they exploit but they certainly pull of some stuff I've never seen others be able to do.

    Their healing is incredible. I think that's what makes them so tough... even when you get the drop and are tearing into them they just wont die.

    Here are some pro tips.
    We can't cast while moving. That is not possible. But we can rush a lord room and drop 4 quickcast pbaoe bombs together. That is devastating dmg when coordinated properly. We also have high level static tempest for pushes and getting casts off in between the stuns with no moc up. Also, you all are red dex/qui debuffed and probably zone of unamana'ed. So probably useless. Lastly, when we finally moc we moc 1 or 2 at a time to cover longer duration. Don't drop all mocs at the same time.

  • It is all about proper and strict coordination. Our group has come the closest in the game to mastering it over time with a lot of practice and trial & error. And we still fail several times every night, but dying is all part of the game.

    As for RPs. Make an RP template and use the 50% rp pot. That + defense bonuses are very strong if you can bait a zerg into attacking a tower or keep and kill them.
  • What's quick cast xuu??? How does it work omgz? I love it when I hear people say they "don't even have it on the bar" because it "never works"
  • @xuu Thank you for the tips on the topic, we appreciate all help to elevate the game and maybe make it more fun for others and challenging for you.
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  • scerff wrote: »
    What's quick cast xuu??? How does it work omgz? I love it when I hear people say they "don't even have it on the bar" because it "never works"

    @scerff Thank you for your comments on all that you know about the game for this topic.
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  • edited February 3 PM
    null
    Quickast are easy to use , you just need to active quickcast wait approx 3 seconds and cast your spell , you can also active quickast in movement , calculating 2-3 seconds in your head , /autoface cast your spell . Practice is the way to learn how using quickast perfectly .
    Post edited by Hellblast on
  • The reality is that they are better at the game than you are, sorry if the truth hurts. Your question actually provides the answer: "what can IRC do that you can't?" The answer is nothing. There is nothing stopping you from running the same setup or playing a direct counter to that setup. The best players will always find a way to optimise classes/setups/abilities and that's what they're doing - and if you think this is a new phenomena then you are wrong because there have always been people at the top of the food chain since this game was released in 2001. The difference now - and cause of 99% of the 'problems' that this game has - is low population . Not a big enough pool of players to chose from to have another group that can neutralise the dominant group. FYI I am not part of IRC and I play Herorius timezone during the week so I hardly ever run into them, I have no allegiances just telling it like is.
  • @Esel Thank you for your post. I'm pretty sure we know they are better players that's why I have this post to find out how to become better, to learn from other players to pass around either styles of play or ideas on how to get better. If no information/strategies/tactics get floated then we don't learn how to get better. In a way I'm crowd sourcing in this post. Does the IRC group want better challenging fights? If so then we'll practice the tips we get to learn. If other players are sitting on info that they glean helps them maybe they will share it to help other players get better. So no it doesn't hurt since we all know they wipe us. Thank you for posting.
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  • edited February 3 PM
    I have to agree with them playing a tank train works the best against them that we found out and we are not the best grp out there we are fresh grp trying to get better at teamwork and assisting. If your fighting there caster train it is more important to kill warps fast or you will die and do not extend to far from your healers if they are rooted thats what they want if that happens stand your ground they are not trying to run from you when they warp and root thats not what they do if its and even fight they will fight to the end there not afraid to do so.if you dont chase them they will turn back to fight you 90% of the time if not more. And dont be afraid to pull as a tank train make them come to you if they pull to far because they will come back.
    Post edited by Names on
  • null
    You don't need to wait 3 seconds after you hit quickcast...
  • just my 2 cents:
    Ive been playing for several years but I certainly don't claim to be a pro and I only play Albion. That being said like most Ive run into IRC. Both as 8mans and with zergs. I cant say whether or not they cheat as I haven't seen any evidence. We all know they are a very talented group, well practiced and versed in each other.
    When fighting them with an 8man you can see its just a gap in skill level. They react fast, know who to hit, when to hit and what to hit with more often than not and they do it with precision. As stated earlier, practice makes perfect so another 8man will have to do just that. Have set players, classes, times, and practice practice practice like they did/do.
    When they fight zergs however when they win, what I see, is mostly a super solid group acting as one and a large mass of pugs acting with the same idea., IRC assists and moves directions as one. They know the push and pull game well. The Alb zergs tends to not have an MA in the zerg and there isn't a lot of assisting in general. They also don't set up proper groups and when were engaged a lot of times ppl run around doing whatever instead of focusing on one or a couple target and moving in the same direction whether that be pushing, pulling, retreating etc.. All of that adds up to an excellent group being able to push and pull while picking off over-extenders until they sway the fight. It makes sense. Like I said I cant say whether or not they cheat but I think there's a lot we can do on our side as players and a realm to improve do better against them.
  • IRC groups use a macro keyboard program that allows them to do 2-3 things with one key. So that IRC guy that is casting and jumping at the same time? He has macro'd [cast] + [jump] into the same keyboard bind. Why is this important? Because it is 100 times harder to target a character when he is jumping than when he is standing still.

    IRC players also use other less commonly known programs that are acceptable to Broadsword. It is not that they are cheating per se but they definitely have the advantage over the average player.

    My biggest issue with IRC groups is their use of radar. They will deny it until they are blue in the face but because of the nature of who they are, they use radar to its fullest extent. IRC groups suspiciously tend to hit your group with no line of sight. Have you ever noticed that IRC groups will disengage in a fight against you even though they are winning? And then 5 seconds later your zerg rolls in? Being the hyper competitive players that they are, they can't stand losing.

    In their defense, IRC groups are so cut throat that they only will keep the best players in the game. So you are usually fighting against 6+ of the best players to play their class in the game. It brings the discussion back to the point of "why" do they need to invest so much in other programs just to roll the average player? As a very good player, I like the challenge of using everything that isn't 3rd party related to try and beat another group. It is the frustration of losing that makes DAoC great. That is something IRC players don't seem to understand. If they really are that great, why not just play with the regular tools of the game and show how good you are?
  • You don't see IRC doing what they do on their hibs while they are on their albs/mids. They are incredible players no doubt (best in the game)...they put in a TON of time. But I think it is apparent to all that Hib is unbalanced atm thus exacerbating the skill gap into something that is crazy difficult to overcome.
  • Names wrote: »
    I have to agree with them playing a tank train works the best against them that we found out and we are not the best grp out there we are fresh grp trying to get better at teamwork and assisting. If your fighting there caster train it is more important to kill warps fast or you will die and do not extend to far from your healers if they are rooted thats what they want if that happens stand your ground they are not trying to run from you when they warp and root thats not what they do if its and even fight they will fight to the end there not afraid to do so.if you dont chase them they will turn back to fight you 90% of the time if not more. And dont be afraid to pull as a tank train make them come to you if they pull to far because they will come back.

    @Names Thank you for your comments, very constructive.
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  • TopDude wrote: »
    IRC groups use a macro keyboard program that allows them to do 2-3 things with one key. So that IRC guy that is casting and jumping at the same time? He has macro'd [cast] + [jump] into the same keyboard bind. Why is this important? Because it is 100 times harder to target a character when he is jumping than when he is standing still.

    IRC players also use other less commonly known programs that are acceptable to Broadsword. It is not that they are cheating per se but they definitely have the advantage over the average player.

    My biggest issue with IRC groups is their use of radar. They will deny it until they are blue in the face but because of the nature of who they are, they use radar to its fullest extent. IRC groups suspiciously tend to hit your group with no line of sight. Have you ever noticed that IRC groups will disengage in a fight against you even though they are winning? And then 5 seconds later your zerg rolls in? Being the hyper competitive players that they are, they can't stand losing.

    In their defense, IRC groups are so cut throat that they only will keep the best players in the game. So you are usually fighting against 6+ of the best players to play their class in the game. It brings the discussion back to the point of "why" do they need to invest so much in other programs just to roll the average player? As a very good player, I like the challenge of using everything that isn't 3rd party related to try and beat another group. It is the frustration of losing that makes DAoC great. That is something IRC players don't seem to understand. If they really are that great, why not just play with the regular tools of the game and show how good you are?

    @TopDude Thank you for your information.
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  • Mace80 wrote: »
    You don't see IRC doing what they do on their hibs while they are on their albs/mids. They are incredible players no doubt (best in the game)...they put in a TON of time. But I think it is apparent to all that Hib is unbalanced atm thus exacerbating the skill gap into something that is crazy difficult to overcome.

    @Mace80 Thanks for pointing that out. The game is supposed to be balanced but I know others see that it's easier to create a group with utilities needed in 5 ppl vs Albs need 8 so the other 3 are extra heals/CC.
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  • edited February 3 PM
    Triq02_Dave depend if you are rupted before or no . But yes you need to wait a little bit before casting after activating qc
    Post edited by Hellblast on
  • xuu wrote: »
    It is all about proper and strict coordination. Our group has come the closest in the game to mastering it over time with a lot of practice and trial & error. And we still fail several times every night, but dying is all part of the game.

    As for RPs. Make an RP template and use the 50% rp pot. That + defense bonuses are very strong if you can bait a zerg into attacking a tower or keep and kill them.

    Thank you very much Xuu, for your great replies on that!!

    Cripp
  • I would also note that many people don't take advantage of the qbind system, and might consider investing in a programmable gaming mouse.
  • Also albs get secondary healer gets demezz so you pretty much always have 2 demezzers in the grp, and sorcs get bolt range aoe mezz and aoe root in one class, so the whole hibs have better utility argument is kind of shaky.
  • what toons demezz on the three realms :)
  • The general public refuses to play a proper group setup, they just want to play the class they want to play. Ask them to swap, get attitude "PAY MY $15 /MO THEN YOU CAN TELL ME WHAT TO DO." Well, okay, go die then idgaf. Lack of people willing to learn from better players, people still think they cheat (lolololololololololololololololololol yes they streaming their elite h4x lololololololololololololololololololol), everybody thinks they know everything and theyre willing to show you through their extensive paper daoc posts.

    Shut up and work harder, nobody cares.
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    X Bodycount X | X AVALANCHE X | FEAR THE TURTLE
    Unsubbed until regular Events are planned and executed well.
  • xuuxuu
    edited February 3 PM
    TopDude wrote: »
    IRC groups use a macro keyboard program that allows them to do 2-3 things with one key. So that IRC guy that is casting and jumping at the same time? He has macro'd [cast] + [jump] into the same keyboard bind. Why is this important? Because it is 100 times harder to target a character when he is jumping than when he is standing still.

    IRC players also use other less commonly known programs that are acceptable to Broadsword. It is not that they are cheating per se but they definitely have the advantage over the average player.

    My biggest issue with IRC groups is their use of radar. They will deny it until they are blue in the face but because of the nature of who they are, they use radar to its fullest extent. IRC groups suspiciously tend to hit your group with no line of sight. Have you ever noticed that IRC groups will disengage in a fight against you even though they are winning? And then 5 seconds later your zerg rolls in? Being the hyper competitive players that they are, they can't stand losing.

    In their defense, IRC groups are so cut throat that they only will keep the best players in the game. So you are usually fighting against 6+ of the best players to play their class in the game. It brings the discussion back to the point of "why" do they need to invest so much in other programs just to roll the average player? As a very good player, I like the challenge of using everything that isn't 3rd party related to try and beat another group. It is the frustration of losing that makes DAoC great. That is something IRC players don't seem to understand. If they really are that great, why not just play with the regular tools of the game and show how good you are?

    absolutely no one in this game binds jump to a spell (lol). also, i don't and never have used radar. there's absolutely no need for radar to know where a zerg is in 2020. it's called /region intel, an entirely separate chat window dedicated solely to death spam, and a /rw open at all times with 7 people hitting refresh on all maps. this is our form of "radar" that every player has access to but doesn't utilize and just afks + brainless stick zerg leader.
    Post edited by xuu on
  • xuuxuu
    edited February 3 PM
    @TopDude also, i will ask my grp to all using atlantis UI, catacombs models, new icons, no macros, no qbinds. LFF?
    Post edited by xuu on
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