Patch 1.127 Update and Upcoming Hot Fix Discussion

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  • Dale_Perf wrote: »
    xuu wrote: »

    Nerf heavies so they arent unkillable, hero zerg is unkillable. Sometimes my grp can take him 5 r11 caster with a 50% debuff. Entire grp focusing on him solo..... but even thats rare. That is so unbalanced. Theres no way normal players can kill him. Remove their passive AOM. Passive aom + cloak + fury + moose + IP + rampage.

    Another related idea to make sieging actually interactive and fun - remove wall climbing ability completely.

    Don't touch pbaoe delve. It's not terribly op and all realms have access to it. It's the champ that makes hib so op. Not to mention its the champ that makes alb and mid so crap. Can't bomb when red aoe debuffed on every caster. We do want it to be dark age of mongo tankers. In fact increase the necro bainshee and lock one to 425 too so they are viable.

    I don't think nerfing all heavies just because hero's are the best heavy tank, and keeping pbae at the same delve is a solution. If theyre going to buff heavy tanks then don't touch the pbae, but if theyre going to nerf all heavies the pbae needs to change a little bit, at least.

    Also taking climb walls away from heavy tanks +53742560937. Light tanks should be the only ones climbing, they don't have the HP/Beefiness of a heavy to withstand too much dps inside a keep. No climb walls would turn it into a caster-only fest for breaking down the outer door, while heavy tanks do nothing but either camp the outer door or posterns. Doesn't sound too fun and interactive to me.

    I don't think the reason Herorius or any heavy can survive is because of the class, it boils down to the defenders having little to no los on the attacker's support class. They need to add a space on the upper oil areas where the defenders can target the healers or extend the outer towers, adding in a postern type door and removing climb points, so the defenders can attack from there. As it is right now, the attackers can set up power fonts and heal their measly hearts out.
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • after talking with the community i am amending my proposed feedback of giving sham a pet to giving aug healer a pet. and healer ability to spec in hammer for side peels
  • -I think there should be a class in every realm that can cast a 300% magic reflect for the entire group for 10sec that's available every 5min.

    -there needs to be a penelty for an attacking force for less then half of the numbers on the keep or more. In accordance there need to be a buff for the defenders. Have it correspond to the amount over and under. 50% more ppl attacking then defending, attackers seige and player damage is -50%. Do it for 75 and 100%. Also flip it for way more defenders then attackers.

    - champion air debuffs need to be grey or green with appropriate values for grey and green and have it have a high resist chance with 25% Mana per cast.

    -Heretic aoe snare needs to cost 2-3x more Mana per tick and do 1/2 the damage.

    - Valkyrie and Hunter RR 5 need to change

    -Bonedancers need to be revamped with out pets that follow the BD.

    - and selflessly , shaman bolt need to change to a bolt of swarm of flies, that fly's to the target once it hits it puts gnats on all targets within 300 radius that do 1 damage and can't be killed for 4 sec. The gnats interrupt all spells.
    Asatruar - Ronnie 10 "
    Corpseshovel - Oldstanky - Nogvi

    The reason people hate to PvP is they are afraid of failure
  • edited February 2 PM
    There was no need to buff pbaoe. Pre buff it was 50/50 on survival defending or attacking. Now it's a lot harder to do either. Cant tell you how many times I've run up into a stack of pbae alternating shield swipe and power leak and it not slowing down the one button wonders.

    Now the little hiblets follow tanks around waiting for them to stun you so you can die in less than 5s. Doesn't matter if you purge of not. You're toast nonetheless. 4500 heavy tank hps gone in seconds. This issue did not exist pre EC patch.

    Either tone the radius down or give us some way to interrupt it. Make the cone pve taunt useful in rvr put a timer on it for all I care. Better yet make it so you pay a cast speed penalty when being bodyguarded.

    Regarding shield swipe, it needs to be changed so that the swipe itself does the work. As it is right now, you shield swipe and let the next auto attack get the radius hit. If you style after shield swipe, you get nothing out of it.
    Post edited by Rok1 on
  • edited February 2 PM
    Forgot , there needs to be a 4hr realm timer
    Post edited by Pleazing on
    Asatruar - Ronnie 10 "
    Corpseshovel - Oldstanky - Nogvi

    The reason people hate to PvP is they are afraid of failure
  • Thaibow wrote: »
    Champ is one of the least played classes in the game, and have little else to offer grps aside from Siege Breaker.

    WUT. THE. F.
  • Felidae wrote: »
    Please take a look at the merc rr5 ability which is, compared to its description, not working as intended.

    Feedback and proof can be found here:
    https://forum.darkageofcamelot.com/discussion/3092/merc-rr5-ability-bugged

    Agreed. Please also make it stop blocking resist debuffs and other things (like weapon proc debuffs), so we can kill Mercs much faster :)
  • edited February 3 PM
    xuu wrote: »
    Don't touch pbaoe delve. In fact increase the necro bainshee and lock one to 425 too so they are viable.

    Idk about don't touch PBAE, but the imbalance is so stupid - Even 390, 400, or something less than 425 would be a lot better than current delves. 305 for Necro, 343 for Bainshee, 343 for Warlock at 50 spec (worthless)
    xuu wrote: »
    Wizard r5 is the longest standing joke in game (aside from pet pathing). Up the delve and add a snare component.

    Bainshee is worse ;> Valkyrie is pretty bad ;>

    Post edited by Enkertons on
  • edited February 3 PM
    The problems I see are the alb zerg will hide in keeps during NA prime and Heros Zerg takes keeps during his prime. The problem with this is due to the majority of albs play a tic and think its the other guys job to heal them. Hero builds a wall climbers group to do wall climber things. 2 different styles but people like to compare the success of one and the failing of the other. The Mid zerg powers up at 9-10pm cst and no one knows what they do cause its pacific players and no one cares. Hero or Brut will fix it in the morning. Sometimes Muy/Anna can pull mids together in the NA am but its usually 1 side loggn in to mid cause they're getting pounded as the other.

    The 15 min timer is a joke. The LEET squads have at least both their accounts setup so when they want to swap then can play a good rr toon from the bot account that didn't gain any rps and be good to go and dodge the realm timer. This should just be a flat 2-4 hour timer once you long in no matter what- u can't swap(like in the old days). Try that for awhile. If the realm switchers quit, let them. See if the old players come back. If they don't- change it so that the account is on a lock if the bots/players are in the relic towns for an amount of time more than 15 mins.

    Make better loots in the game in each of the zones/dungeons every so often to keep the game fresh. That has to be cheaper than making another Curse that you hotfix/patch for 4-5 years after.

    Improve the targeting. I never had problems targeting people in old frontiers. This mess you have now is terrible. I click a guy but click a keep, a door, w/e but not the guy. Nearest Target is NOT your friend. Yes, /assist works but sometimes a player may see something that is an assist monkey and has a hard time clicking on someone.

    Rather than nerfing the champ, why not put those debuffs in a class on alb and mid ? Put it on the Thane and Reaver? Then everyone can have the same toys? If we do that though then mid SM or Bonedancer should get a pet spammer.

    Fix the exploits that keep making people mad and them canceling. Is it really hard to fix ? Just remove the ability that people exploit. Explain why and move on in a grab bag.
    Post edited by Godsdemon on
  • Brut wrote: »
    Ffs your not even in the game you don’t play wake up and smell the coffee tald jeezus Christ give me a break what an absolute balloon.

    i speak only of facts and from an all play-styles pov, no need to preach falsities or pigeon hole - maybe you need to look outside of the box rather than thru the eyes of Arthur. nothing has changed on the player-base side of things. Herorius is still destroying EU, Rescu is still the last leader that plays for the realm and the game for what it is. and the imaginary irc will always be ahead of the 8 ball and adapt first and play in scenerios to their advantage. the one thing in common is that are all player-base driven.

    basically as i said earlier, they could implement all your wishes, but you would still die 80v20, and when you got your forces up to 80v80, hero would log until your BG dissipates and then hero would be back out to restart the cycle.
  • On EC restrictions:

    It is enough imo to have restrictions in inventory spaces and progression rates.

    All the "obvious" things should be available. So that if someone looks at your webpage, he should see that he can do almost everything he wants and needs. At the moment he sees: only 5 classes, RSP cap, no buffpots, no house, .... and he thinks "nah, thx."

    1.) At least all classic classes available, if not all classes.

    2.) Supremacy pots available. It is always nasty if an EC account has to ask for buffs in a grp after he dies. No one is happy about that.

    3.) Remove RSP cap.

    4.) Small houses available with limited vault space. If they want bigger houses they have to sub.

    5.) Crafting available, but with slower progression rate.

    6.) XP/RP progression rate alot slower than for subs.

    7.) Limited inventory space in normal inventory and horses.

    8.) Remove 180day restriction completely.

    People need to be able to do almost everything...but then at some point realize that a sub has some big advantages.
    To enlarge this advantage you could add some little presents for subs, like a little amount of mithril every month, and other things.
  • INC Wall of Text.

    -Hero's BG has, if lucky, 1 or 2 champs. Why? They can't climb, so it's boring standing on the ground doing nothing but ram buffs. So this means we are back to balancing around 8mans and IRC issues? If yes - then let's discuss necros and tics, again.

    -Still waiting on that skald fix from 3+ yrs ago. 8mans don't really need them, and being a siege bot is not a valid reason to have them in a group, esp an 8man.

    -Still waiting on the UI upgrades from 3-4 yrs ago.
    -Healer's helper?
    -DAoC Target Ring?

    -Don't punish Hib because Hero is the only game in town during that time frame with the exception of Anna a few days a week. It's 60 v maybe 20? Now Hib has a decent US Primetime BG. Kudos to those who stepped up.
    -Don't go making changes because of Mid population and performance issues since the exodus.
    -I still do not know what to say about Alb at US Prime Time. Perhaps if they didn't rely on Tics and Necros and actually ran tanks? We have had this discussion before though .. and why are people playing so many Tics and Necros.. ?

    The ebb and flow of the population numbers are a big problem. A 15 min timer is not going to correct this.

    Relics...
    -maybe you need to find a way to "feed" the relics to hold them as we do with the ghost keep event?
    -Better relic bonus incentives?

    Travel and Porting
    -to Keeps- just let us port at this point unless a tower has been taken.
    -Docks - we should be able to take a boat and boat wherever.


    All the work these past years in the name of balance has made a huge mess. But I read somewhere that "balance is boring". Boring, is standing around outside a keep for 15 mins mucking around with a field cat.
    Keep takes are very, very boring. Now needing only 1 on a ram - that's a handful other people who cannot climb who are bored. Yay.

    Climb walls - leave it to the assassins. Inf, SB, NS and you have neutered the ants all over the picnic basket that is Hero during his prime time. It doesn't help though at US Prime Time.

    Walls should be walls.
    -Eggs should not go through them - you can bind at the Lord.
    -Pets should not be going through them.


    -Why are archer classes forced into melee? It's a ranged dps class. I do not see RMs, Elds etc needing to spec blades or staff.
    -Escape tools for those who want to actually play ranged dps and not a hybrid. 50 Archery should actually mean something. Maybe go back to something like Pathfinding? Put the escape tools in there?
    -Fix the bug where hunter pets cannot be released when the pet is pet scared and went "somewhere" well beyond its run timer.
    -Archer rr5s need re-addressed.
    -Bow damage for 50 archery - you need to crunch some numbers on this with ablatives etc in mind.
    -Remedy back to RA


    Can't target support classes outside a keep??! Has no one else seen entire groups of healers standing in a clump on a corner of a keep go SPLaT to a group of assisted siege? Mid is not the only realm with this ability.


    Paid Accounts.
    -Why am I paying $14.99 a month vs what the free accounts are getting, even if the experience is not stellar? You get what you pay for, yes?
    -The free mithril a month as a thank you for paying is a great idea.
    -Why am I paying to test your patches once they go live without much chance of things reverting back when it goes all pear-shaped? I said a couple of years ago - get a test team together and look at testing DATA. Give them assignments, set up toons in Kings, mid and fully temped ranges and realm ranks to be used for testing, then tell them we are looking at Class X and Y and whatever skill this week - GO! This is what Knights should have been doing. Please. Stop relying on whoever is giving you development advice because it is not working for your company.

    Classic Server: a classic server with QOL improvements would likely empty Ywain as it now sits.

    A little more information on "inactive accounts" and repossession would be great.


  • Ssavii wrote: »
    INC Wall of Text.

    Can't target support classes outside a keep??! Has no one else seen entire groups of healers standing in a clump on a corner of a keep go SPLaT to a group of assisted siege? Mid is not the only realm with this ability.

    I have seen this, then I have seen the flood of wall climbers kill the siege operators and smash the engines into the ground. After that, there is little chance of more engines being built.
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • @ssavii archers are a hybrid class yes they can dps at range but not like casters can caster cant fight melee but archers can. Archers do have plenty of escape/kiteing tools, in bow they have a root shot and a snare shot. There are plenty of snares for melee stiles rangers have a root frontal anytime/ scouts can slam hunters have a pet that can snare. On top of the normal Stiles and insta speed they all get. There rr5s works pretty well for melee tho i cant say i know what the scout rr5 is. On top of that archers can change there damege type to match and armor. Just kite till you cant any more then do melee combat and they all get ip to help with that.
  • Ssavii wrote: »
    -Don't punish Hib because Hero is the only game in town during that time frame with the exception of Anna a few days a week. It's 60 v maybe 20? Now Hib has a decent US Primetime BG. Kudos to those who stepped up.
    -Don't go making changes because of Mid population and performance issues since the exodus.

    -If you can't see how much easier it is to have great group synergy on hib nobody can help explain that to you. It's not about hero.

    -Mid needs some touch ups, whether you agree with that or not, to improve group synergy.

    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
    send a message with your wallet
  • xuu wrote: »
    Wizard r5 is the longest standing joke in game (aside from pet pathing). Up the delve and add a snare component.

    My warlock would trade lock r5 for wiz r5 in a heartbeat.

  • Dale_Perf wrote: »
    Also taking climb walls away from heavy tanks +53742560937. Light tanks should be the only ones climbing, they don't have the HP/Beefiness of a heavy to withstand too much dps inside a keep. No climb walls would turn it into a caster-only fest for breaking down the outer door, while heavy tanks do nothing but either camp the outer door or posterns. Doesn't sound too fun and interactive to me.

    This is one of those I agree in principal but disagree based on the ramifications to playerbase. A lot of people who chose heavies and leveled them up to R12-13 have done so for the realm. Saying "oh wait nm soz" while it would make me cackle with knowing glee since I feel Hibs are swarming, would probably be bad for the game.

  • edited February 3 PM
    Koe wrote: »
    Dale_Perf wrote: »
    Also taking climb walls away from heavy tanks +53742560937. Light tanks should be the only ones climbing, they don't have the HP/Beefiness of a heavy to withstand too much dps inside a keep. No climb walls would turn it into a caster-only fest for breaking down the outer door, while heavy tanks do nothing but either camp the outer door or posterns. Doesn't sound too fun and interactive to me.

    This is one of those I agree in principal but disagree based on the ramifications to playerbase. A lot of people who chose heavies and leveled them up to R12-13 have done so for the realm. Saying "oh wait nm soz" while it would make me cackle with knowing glee since I feel Hibs are swarming, would probably be bad for the game.

    Not doing common sense balancing because a very small group of players would get angry. It's not like their toons would be worthless, they zerged their way to r12/15 anyways. Let them be angry. How many times have they changed warlocks?
    Post edited by Dale_Perf on
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
    send a message with your wallet
  • Fix the distance at which mobs pop.
  • .../ponder
    Who would play without a new Realm Rank to strive toward?
  • In terms of nerfing the champ's debuffs. I would say start with nerfing the cursed set bonus or changing it to something else. It's that extra huge radius that is super op not so much 350 delve radius imo.
  • Couple of ideas, mainly focused towards group vs group.

    MID
    1. skald :
    - reduce RUT on DDs to 8 sec (from 15)
    - reduce RUT on mezz to 15 sec (from 30)
    - Add a rampage type of spell (either Heavy tank rampage or PW necro rampage)
    - Add the PW Necro Way of Magic, where magic damage is converted to healing.

    While the valk has ae rupts and healing, the skald could focus on dmg prevention/absorption. It could give a nice 8 man dimension to the class.

    2. Shaman
    You need to spec in three different lines as a Sham, which limits the heals you can get.

    Could we look at increasing spec points? This way a Sham could spec 40 aug and 17 cave, but maybe have access to 40+ mending? This way healing would be much better?

    Could change the pbae disease to a 80% no-immunity snare. Bump to RUT from 8 sec to 20-30 seconds, maybe a minute. I feel that would be abused in solo though. Maybe put that pbae snare in Mending or aug lines?

    3. BD
    Add 209 delve spirit DD in supp line. Would make BDs rip in solo.

    4. RM
    Bring Snare nuke DD in supp line to 199 delve, like it was on the Necro (which was delved down from 199 to 179). Adjust Eld and Necro snare nukes accordingly.

    The Darkness line could use a refresh. it's just unapealing.

    5. Warlock
    Curse DD, change from Matter to Spirit.
    WC and Hex are fun spec lines.

    ALB
    1. Armsman
    Thread specifically for this tank. Tbh in group play it's a good tank. Could use maybe 1 thing to distinguish it from other tanks (free Snapshot) but otherwise it's good, heavy tanks are good.

    2. Reaver
    A good reaver can be a pita to fight. Nice rupts, but just damage is low. In a group, the Reaver fights with the Pally and Armsman for a spot. They have the ABS debuff, but dps wise the merc and FW Mauler are better options.

    Its role is similar to a valk, but without the heals. Not sure what to do about Reavers for groups, but not all classes need to be good in groups.

    To be honest Alb is probably the realm that's in the best state. Just overall synergy, caster utility, R5 abilities, etc. Alb is just good.

    HIB
    1. Bainshee
    In 8 man, Bainshees used to have a lvl 50 pulsing pet fear. I feel like that made the class unique, desired (when fighting albs) and serve a purpose other than dps.

    The Bainshee is on the Body train, which is the 3rd train to run on hib, so really not ideal. At least giving it pet control abilities would fit with the class.

    Move the ES DD from Cold to Heat? Remove the need to constantly double debuff?

    2. Bard
    - Remove Mezz dampen? Sorcs get it, but it was unique to them. Pacs don't get it.
    - Move Root from baseline to Music spec.

    3. Champ
    Change set bonus so that debuffs stay at max 350 radius. Might remove the radius of the debuff, but keep the group buff aspect of the debuffs.

    4. Enchanter
    PBAE is in its debuff line. Pretty much the only caster that gets that and what makes that hib bomb group so versatile.

    - Keep regular pbae in Mana line, put 425 delve pbae in enchantment line.
    - Put ABS debuff in enchantment line (from Light spec)
    - In enchantment, swap cold enchant with matter enchant. Force Enchanters to sacrifice some of their DD baseline variance to get the cold group snare.
    - In enchantments, have the enchantments provide a chance to proc a resist debuff (35-40% debuff). It's kind of dumb that the Fire enchantment (25% increase melee damage) will result in a loss of damage in a group setting. Allows to not need to use Leggies, but still can be greatly mitigated by BAoD/tic R5, etc.

    5. VW
    Reduce the R5 delve back to what it was before the buff it received around the 1.124 patch.

    6. Vamps
    Vamps are pretty crappy in groups since the pet nerf (which was required).

    - Give them a CC redux buff in SM line (rework the Charge spell to add a CC redux aspect to it?)
    - Increase pierce growth rates so they can actually damage stuff in melee
    - Put a cooldown on Claw

    That was my wall of text for today.
  • @Shoke I think all of that is pretty reasonable. The bd thing might be a little crazy as they have always seemed pretty good to me solo. But to be honest I don't know a whole lot about that class. Also ranger RR5 should be a pet scare imo not a pet aggro.
  • @Llewd I was mainly talking about 8v8. The good train on mid is the Supp train, that's where you get the utility betwee the Supp RM and Supp BD, however you end up with crappy dps because it's 3 baseline nukers. Can't kill anything when fighting a group with a bit of brain that can call pre-heals. There just isn't enough spike dps.

    The double thane cold/energy train is good, has massive dps, but relies on having two free MAs to maximize dps. So you get crazy dps but need to have more people free, seems like a fair compromise.

    So the BD 209 nuke is to bump the dps of the supp train so Mid has access to a high dps train.

  • Seems like a pretty high boost to me. Guess you could if you made it 2.8 spd cast time like the same as the light eld spec dd. Might be too much though so it may need toning down to a 199 delve. But I see what you are going for so it would be fine to see how it played.
  • Other points

    RA Revamp
    This is a moer difficult one.

    The positive in OF RA was that they were timer dependent. You had purge easily, but 30 minutes timer. Better be careful with that purge, because you might not have it when you really need it.

    Some RAs were completely OP and there was a lot of redundancy.

    NF RAs have some nice RAs, overall streamlined aside from a couple classes (Heretic, necro). However, the levels allow for shorter RUT that just make it into a dump fest.

    Suggestion:
    - Purge : Only 3 levels of Purge.
    - purge 1 : 20 minute timer (5 sec delay)
    - purge 2 : 20 minute timer (no delay)
    - purge 3 : 15 minute timer (no delay)

    - Other active RAs also at 3 levels (5, 5, 7 points)

    Active defensive RAs : BoF, BA, DI, PR, ST, SoS, AM, go from 10 minute timers to 20 minutes.
    Active offensive RAs : MoC, Ichor, Twf, etc. go from 10 minute to 20 minute RUT

    The goal is to remove some of the crutches people have been using for years only playing high rank characters. It will also reduce some of the disparity between high rank and low rank characters (even though skill mainly comes into play between win/lose) by allowing lower rank characters to acquire the important RAs at a lower RR.

    It should also allow players to focus more on passives instead of being RA dumpsters. This will still allow the R12s of this world to have an advantage over lower rank players by having a more diverse set of RAs and overall better stats/passives.

    PvE
    Make all "epic" encounters (ML mobs, Artifacts, special NF bosses drop BPs. Adjust the BP depending on the difficulty of the mob (so that it doesn't become a single mob farm fest for efficiency). It would allow diverse PvE options.

    Events!!!
    I think everyone is asking for events. While the pins/turkey legs etc bring smallman action to these spots, we can't say gathering quests are particularly exciting. They rely on the dynamic of lowbies farming BPs, soloers feeding on the lowbies and smallman feeding on the soloers.

    Can we group events? Most events are BG events, Ghost Keep being the master RvR event. Which can be fun for a short duration.

    Reduce the duration of events, but add maybe 1-2 new events and have them rotate more frequently.

    Killing a bunny isn't a RvR event.
    Gathering quests spark action in specific areas, but I wouldn't consider them "events".

    Do a BG event!! small map, group vs group event, no zerging. Doesn't have to be Mordred ruleset, just no zergs.
  • 20 minute reuse on purge? No thanks. I don't want to spend my gaming time standing around.... If anything...double immunity timers on all forms of CC. Give CC classes some other form of utility if you feel like it is too much of a nerf to them but for God's sake...being CC'd is one of the most annoying things. I say this from a small man/solo standpoint where we often don't have a demezzer.
  • 20 minutes between fights anyways.
    Shoke wrote: »
    Events!!!
    I think everyone is asking for events. While the pins/turkey legs etc bring smallman action to these spots, we can't say gathering quests are particularly exciting. They rely on the dynamic of lowbies farming BPs, soloers feeding on the lowbies and smallman feeding on the soloers.

    Can we group events? Most events are BG events, Ghost Keep being the master RvR event. Which can be fun for a short duration.

    Reduce the duration of events, but add maybe 1-2 new events and have them rotate more frequently.

    Killing a bunny isn't a RvR event.
    Gathering quests spark action in specific areas, but I wouldn't consider them "events".

    Do a BG event!! small map, group vs group event, no zerging. Doesn't have to be Mordred ruleset, just no zergs.

    @Carol_Broadsword already discussed this in discord, she said it would be possible to do old events that have been done before, namely Ghost Keep event, as is. Any new events would mean no patches b/c they have to code the event.

    I suggested 1 week out of the month be an event, with a quarterly schedule released so we have something to look forward to. It needs to be fun for us as much as it is easy/fast for BS to get done.

    Three main points to bring back population: bug fixes, events, communication.
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
    send a message with your wallet
  • I like the ra's the way they are now. Right now people just afk and wait for there toys to come back up and still will with the longer timers resulting in even less people to kill. Are if you change them now omost everyone will have to retemp.

    As for the class changes i think the champ aoe debuff are not that bad just lower the radius or make it part of the curse set ya that would lower it in open fights but a good poayer can still put the debuffs where they need to be and are still useful in keep fights.

    And switching the curse damage type from matter to spirit i think is a bad idea because they oready have a spirit baseline. You can set up a pretty nice energy debuff train in mid because thanes and sm's can debuff it hexlock has a energy nuke lifetap as well as uninterruptable aoe ddsnare and aoe root, pet fear. Thanes and rm can also do a ton of energy damage ya that would mean specing runecarving but hexlocks are basicly sup spec ya that would put you out of nearsight which can be a minor set back but most good grps would cure that omost instantly anyways. If you have 2 thanes in that set up then you can have 2 bgs if there not stormcalling as well as the longest spellrange increase in the game paired with spell pierce. Ua its on a reuse timer of 5mins(if im right i dont have a thane to confirm) and lasting 2mins thats only a down time of 1min if they cycle it properly.

    As for shamans i think they are fine the way they are most the time cave shams in grp are only good for diseases and i think they have one in baseline. Of you increase there spec points then cave aug will be way to op in solo play and in the battle grounds. As for grps you can do mend aug at least 30 aug for the yellow resist or higher for buff shears with rest mend.

    Feel free to counter this statement or add to it and im sry for writing a book lol
  • Names wrote: »

    As for the class changes i think the champ aoe debuff are not that bad just lower the radius or make it part of the curse set ya that would lower it in open fights but a good poayer can still put the debuffs where they need to be and are still useful in keep fights.

    If you can't see how OP AOE champ debuffs are, you cray cray <3

    It's pretty close to just stripping everybodies buffs in the room. Champs were excellent, and always have been, before that silly curse set. Especially since there's no real counter (not every group in mid can run a warrior for rampage because hib brough one champion....)
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
    send a message with your wallet
  • edited February 5 PM
    @Dale_perf ya i think the aoe duffs are a little op with them haveing all the debuffs on one toon just think they need to be turned down and not nutterd hell mabe a longer recast timer would help a lot that whay it can be purged with out it getting reaplied in lole 15-30 secs(cant rember what the reuse is on them).
    Post edited by Names on
  • They just need to be returned to how they were before, single targets. Champs were great then. We gave them something OP they didn't need, the answer isn't to adjust. Just revert and give them something else on their set bonus, like increased slam dur? idk.
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
    send a message with your wallet
  • @Names The point of the spirit nuke in Curse spec was mainly because he's alone with a matter nuke. Just odd you get a spec nuke, but will do more damage using your baseline because there are much higher chance for it to be debuffed. Not sure why you started talking about Thanes and Hex locks, that wasn't my point.

    The shaman changes were 100% group vs group oriented and would totally break the class for solo play.
  • Very interested to see what Armsmen changes may be coming.

    Polearm growth rate increases and style adjustments and/or spec point adjustments.

    Glad to see the feedback is being reviewed.
  • @shoke sry if i came off as saying your wroung that was not my point i was just stating my opinion on shamans. And thanes and hexlocks were just another grp setup for energy debuff train.same for the spirit nuke for locks i just think it would be to many casters with spec spirit nukes as for grp play think they are better off as hex or witchcraft unless your bombing. If im still not gettimg what you said pls elaborate so more.
  • @Names np just wondering how Hex spec was tied to curse spec dd :wink:
  • i said this in the other thread but i dont think people have talked about the pbaoe enough in this thread.

    Here is what i posted:
    pbaoe is what it should be atm tbh. you couldnt even run a bomb grp before they upped delve. they didn't exist. not even possible with how tanky chars can become. if it reverts then it will just go back to being a pve spell.

    it is very easily countered if you have a brain. that's why my group isn't dying to other bomb grps.

    frfr it is so easily countered and not op. if bs nerfs it is literally because they dont want afk ppl to die and they dont want zergs to have any competition but just roam the wind.
    Like I have said its hib that is OP bc the champ not the pbaoe. I'm looking forward to running other bomb grps eventually. Still gotta push my champ before this nerf doe.
  • edited February 9 PM
    Other point, restore most of the nerfs to paying accounts to put them back to pre EC levels. I'm talking about

    - loyalty cloak XP
    - BPs for MLs
    - supplies quest CL xp
    - RPs

    It's completely unacceptable that you dexided to shaft your paying and supporting customers by basically reducing the value of the sub and coming up with a pay wall to get back to pre-EC levels.

    EC was supposed to bring pop, not screw your exisiting player base.


    There shouldn't be any restrictions to EC accounts in terms of playable classes and buffing mechanics.

    Keep RP and XP gains as is, that would be the only restrictions.

    The MTX should be geared towards EC accounts, not subbed. We are already giving you 15$ per month for this game, please don't laugh at us by "forcing" us to use the MTX store. It's insulting.
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • edited February 9 PM
    Well said shoke.

    I also think sinned accounts should get a discount for mtx costs. Another reason to sub
    Post edited by Sepphiroth75 on
  • Bring back the *lost* Bottomless Dye Pots, Please. Thanks.
  • KoeKoe
    edited February 10 PM
    xuu wrote: »
    Like I have said its hib that is OP bc the champ not the pbaoe. I'm looking forward to running other bomb grps eventually. Still gotta push my champ before this nerf doe.

    So basically you've been running exclusively Hib but *Trust me* /wink it's just the champ that's OP.

    Yeah, it's not just champ. It's a lot of things. Chanter cloak for pushing/siege. Chanter enhance buffs at low spec for great utility. Heck, just giving a mid class, any mid class any spec line the ability to cast a 50% buff to heals on a mate for 30 seconds, Oof. Add the 199d 2.6delve and about six more equally impressive group buffs and its just easy mode. The ease of stun + debuff on hib on multiple damage types with little to no damage lost from having baseline stun and more utility. Multiple forms of CC on all caster classes. Highest delve aoes. High utility classes/specs in the 425 pbaoe lines (vs say SM). Only realm with bombers/aoe bombers, Heal classes with more than 1.0 spec points. Lurikeens.

    Post edited by Koe on
  • Polearm growth rate increases and style adjustments and/or spec point adjustments.

    Seems like my armsman -pole hits harder than my warrior and hero. I've heard others say the same thing.
  • @Koe
    “Heck, just giving a mid class, any mid class any spec line the ability to cast a 50% buff to heals on a mate for 30 seconds, Oof.”

    I’m gonna let you finish. And I agree with some of what you are saying. But mid does indeed have this ability, it’s on shaman. It’s actually 45 seconds duration and at only 35 aug so... basically universal.

    Also no one uses enchantment chanter in bomb defense. Yes the 6 spec enchantment buff is (too) strong but if anyone is higher than 7 enhancement they are doing it wrong. At 7enhance, 19 light, 50mana for 425 pbae, your nukes are already high-ish variance.

    Mana spec + base enchanter kit is the reason chanter is so incredibly strong. Enchantment chanter is great but has basically nothing to do with IRC or any other bomb groups success.
  • Other points:

    - Cut EV tower ports. Let's reduce mobility a little bit. Between safeport, KM port and boat routes to docks, I think that people can achieve EV in a reasonable time. Or ruin them again so that they are extremely easy to take.

    It is a bit dumb to be fighting groups near towers and they just keep porting back as an infinite stream of players.

    - Put incentives for roaming groups again. Come up with a respec type mechanic. It's done elsehwere with some success. Groups looking to 8v8 put themselves on a list, which indicates which zone they are in and the players in the group.

    If your fight is clean (without adds), you can get bonus RPs (1k or so, just for the principle).

    If a group gets on that list with the purpose of abusing and griefing the other groups by systematically jamming, you appeal them and their clients get suspended for 30 minutes. However you do need an active CSR, which I doubt BS has.

    People can still play red is dead by not getting on that list and jamming everything they see. However, people that wish to play it fair have a way to tell it to other groups by using the list.

    - Can you revisit how the RP pop bonus is calculated? Atm, the Rescu zerg is completely useless. They only manage to achieve two things:

    1. Feed Xuu
    2. Prevent other albs from having a RP bonus while they spend hours in Boldiam.

    It's depressing when, as an alb, you run out and basically only have hibs and mids out (Rescu is sitting in a keep with his BG), but when you look at RP bonuses you see mids and hibs have bonuses.


    @Koe About the hib comp they are running. It's really strong because of all the pets and the fact that they have the pbae in the debuff line. However, when the champ runs in and aoe debuffs + Unmana's your group (that champ has 25% debuff bonus), you are basically playing a classic untemped caster. It's ridiculous. It doesn't even require any sort of skill, the champ just runs up and with that range can aoe debuff the whole group from casting range. So even if you root him out, he can still keep rotating his debuffs every 15 seconds.

    If the debuffs were on a 1 min RUT, you could somewhat counter it with Rampage. Being on a 15 sec RUT, it's back up as rampage comes down.
  • @Rohan
    Shaman does not have the same spell, unless the char planner is wrong. It's literally the opposite spell. Heals cast ON someone are buffed.
    Chanter casts on a healer, and heals cast BY them are buffed. And chanter can cast that on all the healers of the group. And if your smart with quick binds and timers, you can have it up pretty much constantly. And you can cast while moving guaranteeing that your healers have it up when the fight starts.

    Also, anyone running a group with 2 or more healers in the group is an idiot (not really) for not having a full enchantment chanter in the group. It's a free spot, can turn 2 healers into 3, 3 into 4+, ect. Plus can do whatever else. The chanter just has to know how to play. If they don't, your right. If they do, I'm right.
  • In regards to defense it’s effectively as good.

    Both aug and pac Healers have spread, and shaman buff works for the whole group if cast on a healer spreading (or warlock). Shaman recast is only 15 seconds so it’s easy to have a 45duration spell on 2 targets (maybe a 3rd).
    In the situation at hand it is as good if not better and faaaaaaar more available to mid than running a specific off-train (body) nuker on hib. Again not saying it’s a bad spec line, it’s great, but calling foul on this particular Enchantment chanter ability when mid arguably has an equivalent, more inclusive alternative is a poor argument.
  • Koe wrote: »
    Polearm growth rate increases and style adjustments and/or spec point adjustments.

    Seems like my armsman -pole hits harder than my warrior and hero. I've heard others say the same thing.

    Are you implying that armsman are fine then? Because it "seems like" your armsman polearm hits harder than warrior and hero and you've heard others say the same thing?

    I can put out decent to pretty damn good dps with polearm - given af/resist debuffs and armor type advantage - however so can hero's and warriors, so nothing against you @Koe but I just don't see any useful information in your post.
  • @Amp_Phetamine We were discussing the upcoming changes to the Armsman class in our group the other day and our armsman was pretty surprised that they were in need of a buff.

    Aside from being to spec more parry for solo play, do you see any required changes? Increasing growth rates on Arms would be OP (they already hit as hard as any other heavy tank).

    I know we have our alb tanker comp ready for when BS buffs Armsman and they start one shotting AF debuffed tanks.
  • Shoke wrote: »
    @Amp_Phetamine We were discussing the upcoming changes to the Armsman class in our group the other day and our armsman was pretty surprised that they were in need of a buff.

    Aside from being to spec more parry for solo play, do you see any required changes? Increasing growth rates on Arms would be OP (they already hit as hard as any other heavy tank).

    I know we have our alb tanker comp ready for when BS buffs Armsman and they start one shotting AF debuffed tanks.

    Naw I honestly don't see a need for polearm damage to be drastically increased, I have the ability to do very good dps with polearm when resist debuffs proc and I land my follow up styles. But I'm not asking for armsman to be top of the food chain either. I'm asking for them to be reviewed and brought back up to par with the rest of the game. I would like to see some better style design in polearm and have some usefulness for crush/slash (especially in weapon selection) compared to thrust (thrust is just better overall in terms of weapon availability and 1h styles). But outside of polearm dps in an 8-man/zerg, armsman are just subpar elsewhere. AF/plate absorb use to be a game changer - it's hardly even noticeable now, let's be honest, how many people out there are "concerned" with armor type outside of resist advantages? With the plethora of abs debuff/af debuffs/resist debuffs it's hardly noticeable.

    The biggest issue with Armsman is the low spec points. I know some people argue that you don't "need" to spec 42 shield on an armsman but let's face it, I haven't came across threads where warriors and hero's have issues with spec points.

    At low realm rank you need at least 39/40/41 points into your subspec to reach 51/52 comp.

    At 50 2h/pole, 42 shield, 40/41 wep, you are left with ~6 points into parry.

    Or you can sacrifice your shield defense and drop it to 35 and play the side stun game, while also dropping your WS/wep dps to attempt and up your parry.

    I've "heard" of people investing into snap shot but I've never seen an armsman use it in the 6+ years of playing mine.

    Also, keep in mind BS hasn't said what they're thinking about doing either. Obviously they don't want to make the class OP, long are the days of 2-3 shotting non-toa templated toons. Would I like to be able to do that? Selfishly yeah, but I know it wouldn't be healthy if armsman were to become stupid OP, especially if they're eventually nerfed to where they are currently or even worse.
  • Shoke wrote: »
    @Amp_Phetamine We were discussing the upcoming changes to the Armsman class in our group the other day and our armsman was pretty surprised that they were in need of a buff.

    Aside from being to spec more parry for solo play, do you see any required changes? Increasing growth rates on Arms would be OP (they already hit as hard as any other heavy tank).

    I know we have our alb tanker comp ready for when BS buffs Armsman and they start one shotting AF debuffed tanks.

    Naw I honestly don't see a need for polearm damage to be drastically increased, I have the ability to do very good dps with polearm when resist debuffs proc and I land my follow up styles. But I'm not asking for armsman to be top of the food chain either. I'm asking for them to be reviewed and brought back up to par with the rest of the game. I would like to see some better style design in polearm and have some usefulness for crush/slash (especially in weapon selection) compared to thrust (thrust is just better overall in terms of weapon availability and 1h styles). But outside of polearm dps in an 8-man/zerg, armsman are just subpar elsewhere. AF/plate absorb use to be a game changer - it's hardly even noticeable now, let's be honest, how many people out there are "concerned" with armor type outside of resist advantages? With the plethora of abs debuff/af debuffs/resist debuffs it's hardly noticeable.

    The biggest issue with Armsman is the low spec points. I know some people argue that you don't "need" to spec 42 shield on an armsman but let's face it, I haven't came across threads where warriors and hero's have issues with spec points.

    At low realm rank you need at least 39/40/41 points into your subspec to reach 51/52 comp.

    At 50 2h/pole, 42 shield, 40/41 wep, you are left with ~6 points into parry.

    Or you can sacrifice your shield defense and drop it to 35 and play the side stun game, while also dropping your WS/wep dps to attempt and up your parry.

    I've "heard" of people investing into snap shot but I've never seen an armsman use it in the 6+ years of playing mine.

    Also, keep in mind BS hasn't said what they're thinking about doing either. Obviously they don't want to make the class OP, long are the days of 2-3 shotting non-toa templated toons. Would I like to be able to do that? Selfishly yeah, but I know it wouldn't be healthy if armsman were to become stupid OP, especially if they're eventually nerfed to where they are currently or even worse.

    Edit: But I will say this @Shoke. Regarding the game currently, Polearm shouldn't hit "as hard as" the other heavy tanks. It should hit harder than the other heavy tanks. I argue this because of the fact that armsman have the worst defensive capability and worst utility in comparison to the other two.
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