When can we expect something

edited January 5 in General Board
No bug fixes in over a month

Ground-breaking changes with no response

Devs on vacation

All this during a known traffic increase for video games (more people off work, more potential players) , and nothing. It's like we don't even care. But hey, at least we got our account center update so I can see all the characters I made 15 years ago that I didn't care to transfer.

Even the warning for my previous post, yet it just simply says warning, but I got no message from any moderator. +1 communication o:)
Post edited by Dale_Perf on
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
send a message with your wallet
Tagged:

Comments

  • The silence is deafening :/
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • It's just time of year, as we move forward on patch 1.127 more info will flow :)

    I understand you may not like something, but that doesn't mean everyone doesn't so please do bear that in mind. The account center update was a good update and something asked for and will help people figuring out accounts.
    DAoC Community Lead
    Broadsword Online Games
  • @Carol_Broadsword

    A Weekly update of fixes and patch updates would be wonderful!

    We like to know these things :D
  • @Carol_Broadsword
    Will you bring back underpop bonus?
  • @Carol_Broadsword You know it was called "Friday Grab Bag" because it came every Friday? There was also a reason for that...
  • Yes but for the last few years it's been every 2nd Friday @Menos and we breaked for the holidays, it'll return soon :)

    DAoC Community Lead
    Broadsword Online Games
  • @Carol_Broadsword
    My question was not answered.
  • Ease up people, jeez. There is stuff to do for sure but year is barely started.
  • Gavner wrote: »
    Ease up people, jeez. There is stuff to do for sure but year is barely started.

    But have they even started? If youre a company, you tend to your customers. Its just bad business with no communication.. You cant expect people to continue to pay for a service with no follow through.. Its like paying a phone company with no service.. Pretty pointless dont ya think?
  • We get that the software is old and updates are slow, but I think the lack of transparency is what is getting people grumpy.. oh and the lack of interactive RvR event that matters this holiday (people see the low pop and are scared, or Atlest low action). People just want to know that you see a problem and are working on it, and then that your still working and have a plan that is somewhat reflected by players.

    I did very much appreciate the quick website account update, but I played the game this break not the account manager so while useful, nomatter how wonderful you make it, if the game has some big issues it will be hard to continue to subscribe.

    Hope that helps @Carol_Broadsword, I don't think they are mad at you, just the situation we are in.
  • Remember that time when @John_Broadsword told us all he didn't have to justify the changes he makes? Then deleted that forum post? Transparency is 100% the thing. Taking a two week vacation after making ground breaking changes to the game then going silent makes it 10x worse. Skipping half the grab bags from November-December also hurts us (3 grab bags total nov-dec) during a time when we expected increase communication after EC.

    Guess our $$ doesn't mean too much to certain people.

    @Carol_Broadsword you are wonderful, and in no way is this directed towards you.

    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • KatKat
    edited January 6 PM
    Dale_Perf wrote: »
    Remember that time when @John_Broadsword told us all he didn't have to justify the changes he makes? Then deleted that forum post? Transparency is 100% the thing. Taking a two week vacation after making ground breaking changes to the game then going silent makes it 10x worse. Skipping half the grab bags from November-December also hurts us (3 grab bags total nov-dec) during a time when we expected increase communication after EC.

    Guess our $$ doesn't mean too much to certain people.

    @Carol_Broadsword you are wonderful, and in no way is this directed towards you.

    Again...PR is not a strength of BS. If they were all going on vacation over the holidays (which is perfectly ok, everyone deserves breaks) they shouldn't have dropped a patch that has such huge changes. Not unless they were staffed to respond to the issues. December was basically a beta test, and no one around to respond. I understand they promised the patch in 2019, and maybe felt pressure to dump it...but at what cost?

    I have been playing for a few weeks. The entire time Hibs have had 5 relics and am boating either from Glen or the relic town 90% of the time. Not that much fun. HIbs are killing the game one broken port at a time.
    Post edited by Kat on
    Stealth zergs are a cancer
  • Kat wrote: »
    Again...PR is not a strength of BS. If they were all going on vacation over the holidays (which is perfectly ok, everyone deserves breaks) they shouldn't have dropped a patch that has such huge changes. Not unless they were staffed to respond to the issues. December was basically a beta test, and no one around to respond. I understand they promised the patch in 2019, and maybe felt pressure to dump it...but at what cost?

    Nobody has issue with them taking a holiday vacation, but you don't drop a major campaign with groundbreaking changes right before going on vacation. They constantly tell us they are a small staff and it takes time to get things done, so why all the major changes then take 2 weeks off? Seems like they're working against themselves. Staff doesn't need to take holidays off together, but it seems the lights in the studio need some dusting with how long since anybody has been there.
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • edited January 7 PM
    They're a small company and took a holiday break.... Holy sh*t people relax, let them breath. No wonder they hate replying to us, as soon as they give a response it's 500 more complaints shoved down their throat. And 85% if not more are just pure brain dead people throwing out absurd requests.
    Post edited by Impounded on
    Impounded - Warrior__________Gimpound - Champion
    Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
    Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator

    Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743

    >Daoc Videos<
  • @debain Communication is important I agree, but just last Grab Bag they said when we can expect changes based on feedback/their view on changes, plus posted the same reply to multiple topics. There are some things that they fixed fast after patch like WL PB being uninterruptible (however ofc some WL didn't like that either).

    With EC this is a public forum, everyone can have their own opinions, but when we got an answer already (to when can we expect it), not much point to ask when every day.
  • I'm sure we'll get some announcement by March then (lol).
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • @Gavner
    We have no answer why underpop bonus was removed, and why not bring it back.
    Which is strange in a situation where 1 realm is highly overpopulated.
  • Kroko wrote: »
    @Carol_Broadsword
    Will you bring back underpop bonus?

    We are currently discussing this and will update when there's more news. Thanks @Kroko !
    DAoC Community Lead
    Broadsword Online Games
  • Impounded wrote: »
    They're a small company and took a holiday break.... Holy sh*t people relax, let them breath. No wonder they hate replying to us, as soon as they give a response it's 500 more complaints shoved down their throat. And 85% if not more are just pure brain dead people throwing out absurd requests.

    Exactly.
  • Frequent communication is very important to players. And if it is just you writing a short "Nothing new, we are still all on vacation" message, that's still better than silence.

    Silence leads to people making their own news in their head, and they tend to think "Well if there would be good news, they'd be telling them to us, so there can only be bad news right now..." Aside from the fact of countering those false news that people come up with it also helps to catch those who only look into this game news rarely and be like "Only 3 news in 2 month, wow that game must be dead."

    That's why the Friday Grab Bag was every Friday, to cause a feeling of regular updates and a busy, hard-working company.
  • Kroko wrote: »
    @Carol_Broadsword
    Will you bring back underpop bonus?

    We are currently discussing this and will update when there's more news. Thanks @Kroko !

    No reflection on you Carol, but we look forward to the update in March :D :D :D
  • yeah that account center update was clutch. I don't expect my people to work over the holidays, Come on guys...
  • edited January 8 PM
    @Carol_Broadsword bringing back the underpop bonus wont do much of anything in all fairness. you have to be able to kill people in order to make any realm points. However, it hasn't been possible when hibs out number everything enormously and controlling the game entirely. To be honest its a real issue and a serious problem.
    Post edited by Zonq on
  • @Zonq
    It basically always helps, if one realm gets a bonus, when it is underpopulated.
    If 40hibs take a keep, and 20albs defend, then the albs should manage to kill a bit. Some even manage to kill alot, if they have an assist train. So, they might be happy about an underpop bonus, even if they loose the keep.

    But youre right that it alone may not solve the problem.
  • would help if toons got rps in a keep defense for heals and damage not just kills and rezzes---

    but then i guess there would another skills set lol
  • Well i came back, paid a months subs. cancelled 4 days later. People still realm hopping and lacks population.
  • Its a bit disheartening to still not have any news of direction or plans from broadsword that are bouncing about. Whether its responses from the communities ideas or broadswords own direction to initiate discussion.

    If you need/want some ideas from the community on what we would spend money on that would help to loosen up the EC restrictions and promote funds to the new server... Here are some of mine.

    Add platinum tokens to the MTX Merchants. Over the life of many games including this one, customers have profited off selling ingame currency for real life currency... Many gaming companies offer their ingame currency in their real currency stores. Its foolish to not do so. 10-12 USD MTX per 100 is reasonable to bypass the current wait meta of WTS GTC 250Plat.

    Lower the MTX cost of instant 50 to like 20 USD MTX. Lower the individual costs of CL and ML Tokens to 5-10 USD MTX...

    Add Artifact XP Tokens. I'd pay about 2-3 dollars to drop a scroll on an Artifact to make it level 10.

    Have a special once a month or something after looking at your MTX sales data... Low to no sales items, put them on a 20-60% sale for a week.

    Add some cool looking unique patterns to the MTX. Not just masks. Hook us up with some wing patterns... Change them cloaks in Apoc wings or Succubus wings.. Some flame trails...

    Illusion Pots on mtx

    Make tokens to unlock higher Realm Rank levels for EC account characters.
    ....

    Free all the classes for EC. You would be opening up a window for EC accounts to spend more MTX on instant 50, CL XP, ML XP, Arti XP, and even plat to buy items for templates.

    Make traveling merchants appear more often. Change or update merchants to include Old Currency items that are not craft able or obtainable outside of those currencies... Open up more opportunity to spend plat.

    Work on making RP gains more satisfying for everyone (Population Bonus) to give incentive to keep going at it... **** I would die with a group/zerg all night with no relics and 15% bug pot, 50% RP pot and 50+% Underpop pot.
  • Lotion wrote: »
    Its a bit disheartening to still not have any news of direction or plans from broadsword that are bouncing about. Whether its responses from the communities ideas or broadswords own direction to initiate discussion.

    If you need/want some ideas from the community on what we would spend money on that would help to loosen up the EC restrictions and promote funds to the new server... Here are some of mine.

    Add platinum tokens to the MTX Merchants. Over the life of many games including this one, customers have profited off selling ingame currency for real life currency... Many gaming companies offer their ingame currency in their real currency stores. Its foolish to not do so. 10-12 USD MTX per 100 is reasonable to bypass the current wait meta of WTS GTC 250Plat.

    Lower the MTX cost of instant 50 to like 20 USD MTX. Lower the individual costs of CL and ML Tokens to 5-10 USD MTX...

    Add Artifact XP Tokens. I'd pay about 2-3 dollars to drop a scroll on an Artifact to make it level 10.

    Have a special once a month or something after looking at your MTX sales data... Low to no sales items, put them on a 20-60% sale for a week.

    Add some cool looking unique patterns to the MTX. Not just masks. Hook us up with some wing patterns... Change them cloaks in Apoc wings or Succubus wings.. Some flame trails...

    Illusion Pots on mtx

    Make tokens to unlock higher Realm Rank levels for EC account characters.
    ....

    Free all the classes for EC. You would be opening up a window for EC accounts to spend more MTX on instant 50, CL XP, ML XP, Arti XP, and even plat to buy items for templates.

    Make traveling merchants appear more often. Change or update merchants to include Old Currency items that are not craft able or obtainable outside of those currencies... Open up more opportunity to spend plat.

    Work on making RP gains more satisfying for everyone (Population Bonus) to give incentive to keep going at it... **** I would die with a group/zerg all night with no relics and 15% bug pot, 50% RP pot and 50+% Underpop pot.

    Great ideas!
    CATACUSX - ASATRUAR
  • edited January 11 PM
    Yes but for the last few years it's been every 2nd Friday @Menos and we breaked for the holidays, it'll return soon :)

    Another missed opportunity today.

    This is only keeping players away.
    Post edited by Dale_Perf on
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • The Grab Bag returns next week.

    Lotion, some nice ideas there. A couple we wouldn't do and some art related which atm is tied up with other things. Also while I would love wings, I don't think they fit in DAoC. Unless it's like pixie wings for hibs or something :)
    DAoC Community Lead
    Broadsword Online Games
  • Yeah no Grab bag today , its sad :(
  • null
    Trolls need pixie wings too =D
  • Rofl i can see it now everyone will just be calling lurys pixies from now on
  • KoeKoe
    edited January 12 PM
    Lotion wrote: »
    .
    Good. For the plat sales one, just put either mansion deeds on the MTX merchant, or the perfect ice crystals or whatever they are from Jack Frost. Seems like something that would take very little work.

    For the pots, 2 hours is not a great value. I think upping them to 3-4 hours would make them more enticing, especially RP ones. Unless you are in a very set experienced 8man you really can't guarantee that you are going to get more than 50k out of that 2 hour period. In my experience people aren't popping multiple of those things per 4-5 hour game session. Instead, making them last the entire session would make more people use them to begin with. My 2c.
    Post edited by Koe on
  • Lotion wrote: »
    Add platinum tokens to the MTX Merchants. Over the life of many games including this one, customers have profited off selling ingame currency for real life currency... Many gaming companies offer their ingame currency in their real currency stores. Its foolish to not do so. 10-12 USD MTX per 100 is reasonable to bypass the current wait meta of WTS GTC 250Plat.

    Please NO! It's strange that people still doesn't realize how basic economy works in games/irl. You can't go ahead and print money. It will drive strong inflation, that finally start to wear off after some merchant money increases and less macro teams working currently. You want 300p item prices back? Because that's how you get 300p item prices back (or more).

    If you suggesting, some games have a player driven GTC trade ingame option. Buy GTC for the price of plats, and on the other end people can buy plats for that price. Thats different, because you are not effectively printing plats. Any other game you meant probably have catastrophic ingame economy. Many games failed because bad economy.

    Hope @Carol_Broadsword didn't include this as one of the "good idea". I would be shocked if game devs don't know it better. The day DAoC over for me is when they push MTX to stupid levels that hurts in-game economy.
  • edited January 12 PM
    I always dreamt of holding one of these in my wallet, until you realize you can't even buy lunch with it
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • Gavner wrote: »
    Lotion wrote: »
    Add platinum tokens to the MTX Merchants. Over the life of many games including this one, customers have profited off selling ingame currency for real life currency... Many gaming companies offer their ingame currency in their real currency stores. Its foolish to not do so. 10-12 USD MTX per 100 is reasonable to bypass the current wait meta of WTS GTC 250Plat.

    Please NO! It's strange that people still doesn't realize how basic economy works in games/irl. You can't go ahead and print money. It will drive strong inflation, that finally start to wear off after some merchant money increases and less macro teams working currently. You want 300p item prices back? Because that's how you get 300p item prices back (or more).

    If you suggesting, some games have a player driven GTC trade ingame option. Buy GTC for the price of plats, and on the other end people can buy plats for that price. Thats different, because you are not effectively printing plats. Any other game you meant probably have catastrophic ingame economy. Many games failed because bad economy.

    Hope @Carol_Broadsword didn't include this as one of the "good idea". I would be shocked if game devs don't know it better. The day DAoC over for me is when they push MTX to stupid levels that hurts in-game economy.

    How much MTX was the cost of platinum on merchants when item prices were 300p+? Or was that the result of the ingame economy inflating itself from numerous macro teams in higher population? Or there wasn't enough quantity of the item being farmed for the population? Or both?

    If Broadsword sells 100 platinum for 10USD, and they increase the amount of time you see traveling merchants to once every 2 months. Lets say they standardize the price of Searing Demon Necklace to 50Platinum on these merchants... Isn't it reasonable to think the player economy would stabilize the prices of this item 40-49Platinum?

    Every customer isn't going to buy MTX for platinum, and those of us who do buy platinum for IRL money already would have an extra option if there go to isn't there.

    I'm interested in seeing more people in the game, and to help make that happen we need Broadsword to loosen up more on EC restrictions for YWAIN at this time. They're not a Non-profit Organization. They need extra sales to give away more free access to people. The ingame economy is always a mess on live and those other servers for DAoC.
  • edited January 12 PM
    Lotion wrote: »
    Gavner wrote: »
    Lotion wrote: »
    Add platinum tokens to the MTX Merchants. Over the life of many games including this one, customers have profited off selling ingame currency for real life currency... Many gaming companies offer their ingame currency in their real currency stores. Its foolish to not do so. 10-12 USD MTX per 100 is reasonable to bypass the current wait meta of WTS GTC 250Plat.

    Please NO! It's strange that people still doesn't realize how basic economy works in games/irl. You can't go ahead and print money. It will drive strong inflation, that finally start to wear off after some merchant money increases and less macro teams working currently. You want 300p item prices back? Because that's how you get 300p item prices back (or more).

    If you suggesting, some games have a player driven GTC trade ingame option. Buy GTC for the price of plats, and on the other end people can buy plats for that price. Thats different, because you are not effectively printing plats. Any other game you meant probably have catastrophic ingame economy. Many games failed because bad economy.

    Hope @Carol_Broadsword didn't include this as one of the "good idea". I would be shocked if game devs don't know it better. The day DAoC over for me is when they push MTX to stupid levels that hurts in-game economy.

    How much MTX was the cost of platinum on merchants when item prices were 300p+? Or was that the result of the ingame economy inflating itself from numerous macro teams in higher population? Or there wasn't enough quantity of the item being farmed for the population? Or both?

    If Broadsword sells 100 platinum for 10USD, and they increase the amount of time you see traveling merchants to once every 2 months. Lets say they standardize the price of Searing Demon Necklace to 50Platinum on these merchants... Isn't it reasonable to think the player economy would stabilize the prices of this item 40-49Platinum?

    Every customer isn't going to buy MTX for platinum, and those of us who do buy platinum for IRL money already would have an extra option if there go to isn't there.

    I'm interested in seeing more people in the game, and to help make that happen we need Broadsword to loosen up more on EC restrictions for YWAIN at this time. They're not a Non-profit Organization. They need extra sales to give away more free access to people. The ingame economy is always a mess on live and those other servers for DAoC.

    Will be fun to SC items for 100p/each. Yes, killing mobs/doing quests is the way to "print money" in game right now which is why macro teams also does an effect on economy if their purpose is to make money. You can't solve all the economy issues with merchants that sell everything, once plat becomes worthless, players will just hold valuable items/service as alternate currency once you ruined gold. We seen that in Diablo titles too (want some SoJ?)

    There are things that can be done to balance, increase dye prices, increase buff prices, increase the time travelings there, increase repair/con restore costs (which most games use), and increase cost of housing purchases. But there is so much you can do, if you already ruined your economy, and people will shift to alternate currencies there is no way going back besides hard removing currency, which will be quiet not fun with people who payed IRL money for it.

    You NEED to avoid this. There is no way this ends up good. If their pricing is reasonable, it will have an effect, which will be hard to reverse.

    So yeah, welcome to Zimbabwe as @Shoke suggested.
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • Gavner wrote: »
    Lotion wrote: »
    Add platinum tokens to the MTX Merchants. Over the life of many games including this one, customers have profited off selling ingame currency for real life currency... Many gaming companies offer their ingame currency in their real currency stores. Its foolish to not do so. 10-12 USD MTX per 100 is reasonable to bypass the current wait meta of WTS GTC 250Plat.

    Please NO! It's strange that people still doesn't realize how basic economy works in games/irl. You can't go ahead and print money. It will drive strong inflation, that finally start to wear off after some merchant money increases and less macro teams working currently. You want 300p item prices back? Because that's how you get 300p item prices back (or more)...

    Actually no. /puts on his economics hat.

    There is a near limitless supply of high end goods (very few cannot be made with BPS or BPS equivalent (dopple mace through shards)) in relation to the amount of platinum that would likely be purchased. The number of goods created is elastic, and will easily change with the demand (price increase). You'd actually start to see more DF organized raids if prices did start to increase markedly, so... that would be good on two fronts as 1) it would create more content/raids and 2) it would moderate inflation. Now, this assumes reasonable prices as set by Broadsword for platinum. Obviously if one could purchase 1,000 plat coins for $1, we'd see hyper inflation. However, placing a real price on platinum ($10 for a 200p redeemable "coin") is a price point that some would use.

    I'd add from a business perspective that a 200p coin would have real value to many players as it would be a good way to store resources. Those coins would likely be traded between players rather than sold to merchants for cash value. Another way to think of it; people would probably pay a plat farmer or another player who was willing to spend MTX, 190-200p plus a decent item for one of those coins. Especially those of us who hoard. That indirectly increases the number of people willing to purchase coins but also doesn't increase the traded game cash (has no inflationary impact).
  • Koe wrote: »
    Gavner wrote: »
    Lotion wrote: »
    Add platinum tokens to the MTX Merchants. Over the life of many games including this one, customers have profited off selling ingame currency for real life currency... Many gaming companies offer their ingame currency in their real currency stores. Its foolish to not do so. 10-12 USD MTX per 100 is reasonable to bypass the current wait meta of WTS GTC 250Plat.

    Please NO! It's strange that people still doesn't realize how basic economy works in games/irl. You can't go ahead and print money. It will drive strong inflation, that finally start to wear off after some merchant money increases and less macro teams working currently. You want 300p item prices back? Because that's how you get 300p item prices back (or more)...

    Actually no. /puts on his economics hat.

    There is a near limitless supply of high end goods (very few cannot be made with BPS or BPS equivalent (dopple mace through shards)) in relation to the amount of platinum that would likely be purchased. The number of goods created is elastic, and will easily change with the demand (price increase). You'd actually start to see more DF organized raids if prices did start to increase markedly, so... that would be good on two fronts as 1) it would create more content/raids and 2) it would moderate inflation. Now, this assumes reasonable prices as set by Broadsword for platinum. Obviously if one could purchase 1,000 plat coins for $1, we'd see hyper inflation. However, placing a real price on platinum ($10 for a 200p redeemable "coin") is a price point that some would use.

    I'd add from a business perspective that a 200p coin would have real value to many players as it would be a good way to store resources. Those coins would likely be traded between players rather than sold to merchants for cash value. Another way to think of it; people would probably pay a plat farmer or another player who was willing to spend MTX, 190-200p plus a decent item for one of those coins. Especially those of us who hoard. That indirectly increases the number of people willing to purchase coins but also doesn't increase the traded game cash (has no inflationary impact).

    There are numerous faults in this.

    Not all goods/service can be obtained via BP Craft, probably could write list all day long. Once you start selling on whatever reasonable amount (lets say 10$ for 200p for the example), you start to print money into economy. Once it slightly starts inflating, it will only pick up after that, then people start selling 300p for 10$, or BS need to adjust and sell for more, which will just end up in a circle.

    You can't increase prices on merchants to keep racing with the inflation eventually, then it becomes kind of worthless.

    Thing is, you can deal with macro teams if needed, you can deal with the amount of plats quests/mobs give, but you can't deal with people buying plats once it's start to go off. Regardless of the supply of the obtainable high-end goods, their price will increase, because unless everything in game worth 1 copper, including services more money from thin air in economy = inflated prices, you can not avoid this, however you wrap your head around it.
  • edited January 12 PM
    If you have to start selling crap like that, then a better way would be to sell account / char bound items directly from the MTX store, even tho im not a fan of cash shops, atleast templating people this way, instead of selling plats, wouldnt affect the economy as much for the people who wouldnt want to be a part of the cash shop in a way like this.

    Personally im not even going to enter the talk about RL VS game economies, faucet and sinks of currency generation over time in games vs instantly printing free cash. If people cant see the problems with instantly printing an ingame currency and increasing the total pool of currency and what it will do to prices, returning and new players, then im not going to waste my time trying to convince them.

    Atleast a positive outcome of selling plats for cash would be to instantly cure me of my DAoC addiction lol.

    I wonder tho, who are the many mmo's that are being reffered to, who are selling ingame cash from cash shops directly for RL cash ? Cause in 21 years of playing mmo's i havent seen one yet, maybe im just lucky.
    Post edited by Vrisslar on
  • Ya im against them selling plat in any form i think the economy is over inflated now with macro teams farming gear and plat then selling it. But at least that way they are still having to put in work to do it that way.

    Oh and just to try and start a new trend
    #banmacroteamsfromanypvpzone
  • KoeKoe
    edited January 12 PM
    Vrisslar wrote: »
    If people cant see the problems with instantly printing an ingame currency and increasing the total pool of currency and what it will do to prices, returning and new players, then im not going to waste my time trying to convince them. Atleast a positive outcome of selling plats for cash would be to instantly cure me of my DAoC addiction lol.

    Saying you won't debate something doesn't mean you are factually correct. I wrote more below. I'll add that for those of you scared that inflation would happen, what about selling 400k bp tokens for $15/2500mtx or whatever. There's your dedicated way to ensure the plat doesn't stay in the economy and goes directly to items. As far as the ability to buy plats for cash, welcome to 2005, or wait, 2020! /checks websites. Yep, can still buy plat for cash! (which the people on that site will them create more plat). Would you quit if broadsword started a competitor plat service? Would you only quit if it was on the MTX store? Do you see how this argument is falling apart?
    Gavner wrote: »

    There are numerous faults in this. Not all goods/service can be obtained via BP Craft, probably could write list all day long.

    I spoke to that. There are very few high end items you can't BP craft/buy with BP's or use shards through BP's.
    Gavner wrote: »
    Once you start selling on whatever reasonable amount (lets say 10$ for 200p for the example), you start to print money into economy. Once it slightly starts inflating, it will only pick up after that, then people start selling 300p for 10$, or BS need to adjust and sell for more, which will just end up in a circle. You can't increase prices on merchants to keep racing with the inflation eventually, then it becomes kind of worthless.

    All this quote lets me know is you don't understand what inelastic vs elastic demand means. The fed putting Trillions into the market has not spurred inflation, for example. If what you say is correct we would have seen 50% inflation over the last 10 years. You are entitled to your opinion but it's not coming from someone who understands economics. As an example I have so many bp's I've just been buying seasonal/frozen/curse/aurulite recipies for the most part, sometimes giving away gear for free to people who ask in region. I'd start selling these items if I had a way to more easily keep plat, and I'd start selling items if the price people paid for them increased. You'd also see people run more raids for this gear if inflation started happening. It won't, not only because demand is elastic, but because there's too many ways for plat to exit the system. (more below)
    Gavner wrote: »
    Thing is, you can deal with macro teams if needed, you can deal with the amount of plats quests/mobs give, but you can't deal with people buying plats once it's start to go off. Regardless of the supply of the obtainable high-end goods, their price will increase, because unless everything in game worth 1 copper, including services more money from thin air in economy = inflated prices, you can not avoid this, however you wrap your head around it.

    Again, you aren't discussing how there are many influxes and exits for money in this closed system. There is probably ~1,000 -2,000 plat created on the server during any given day (might be a lot higher, not sure). Quests give lots of coin, 250-300 for some repeatables, killing someone gives 250-300g, and farming high level dungeons gives a macro team probably 10-20p a session. Gaining 15-20p in coin a rvr session is pretty standard for many people. These people aren't going to buy 200p every 10 days; as such it's likely the increase in plat through any sales would be less than 50%. Some of that would go to the natural currency exits: 20% tax off the top for purchases in housing, increased costs for crafting/potions/Infernal merchants:), INFERNAL MERCHANTS and pots (again for emphasis), plat required for stardust, and simple loot stockpiling. Much of the purchased plat will not stay within the circulating system for long.

    Another way for you to understand what's happening. This system already exists, just in casual form. If players want to get plat they can pay for it (not sure if legal or not, but some do from sites). The people who run this as a business will create plat a number of ways, but they are absolutely adding currency to the closed system, and it doesn't cause much inflation. The fact that there are natural exits for plat from the closed system, that people tend to outfit their toons in gear rather than keeping plat in a bank/purchasing, and that gear ends up expiring at some point, all keeps inflation down. Account closures also reduce available plat in the system.


    Post edited by Koe on
  • edited January 12 PM
    @Koe
    In some things you are right, some things shortsighted by reading two wikipedia pages to lecture.

    I might be limited by my English vocabulary, since I am not from a native American/English speaking country but I do my best.

    "I spoke to that. There are very few high end items you can't BP craft/buy with BP's or use shards through BP's."

    There is, and will be demand for items / service that can't be crafted, or purchased from infernal merchants.

    "because there's too many ways for plat to exit the system."

    Yes there is alot, which in the past I argued about to use more, since I am unsure you were around, but there were times when inflation got out of hand in the past. Still, BS wasn't really on top to deal with the issue efficiently already.

    "Another way for you to understand what's happening. This system already exists, just in casual form. If players want to get plat they can pay for it (not sure if legal or not, but some do from sites). The people who run this as a business will create plat a number of ways, but they are absolutely adding currency to the closed system, and it doesn't cause much inflation...."

    You forgetting that to maximize efficiency these plat farmers not just produced plat into the system, but items too to sell for those as a counterbalance. Printing from thin air differs.

    You just assume that the total Plat pool is so high, and the built in plat sinks working so good, that it wouldn't result in inflation. Now take a look at trade section of the discord, and watch all the people trading with GTCs now, and in the past. They will likely use this easier, faster, and safer method, and say with such a population it going to drive 0 inflation.

    Also check the forums of people complaining on Dye price increases & Stardust prices, once they have to increase sinks in game it also drives away people. If it's so easy to farm plat now as you think, people wouldn't bother buying. Yet they do, and anyone who doesn't want to spend $ on plats as a new/returning player will have to face it with the additional sinks that had to be introduced as a result, or end up trading with BP stuff/whatever, which will be the clear indication that alternate currency became stronger then gold, since it's the hardest to obtain, yet the system is flooded.

    Regardless, still waiting on a positive game example if we done talking from a high horse.

    Edit: If they increasing costs of sinks as you suggested (stardrop etc), isn't it inflation already btw?
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • KoeKoe
    edited January 12 PM
    No. and No.

    You mentioned that at times in the past there was inflation in DAOC (yes I was around). Lets talk about 2002-2012, that 10 year period. (There were two brief other inflationary events I'm aware of more recently, but those were tied to bugs/exploits that resulted in players having significant access to cash, knew it was going to go away, so they essentially bought up the market) AAAND then there was a rollback:) When the game started we were scrapping at mobs, even a level 60 mob might drop a gold or two, split among 8 players. At lower levels we were excited when we got our first gold piece. Then very excited if we got our first platinum. It was soon gone towards crafting expenses/skill ups. As time went on in order to incentivize players to new content, mobs dropped more coin, quests became repeatable, new classes/encounters allowed players to earn more and more cash from the world. A pbaoer/block bot in 2003 hadn't the ability to chain pull 20 red/oj/purps. In 2011 people could absolutely do that at R5+ with a decent template including focal myth and block%. Gold for player kills increased. In 2003 I could probably play all day at level 50 and get 150gold. In 2012 I could play all day, pvp or pve and get 5-25 plat. Rassa. Pictish camps/quests. Many people had more plat than they knew what to do with. More importantly, what tied the price of that item sale was the time weighted value of the good; based on your ability to earn plat on your own in a variety of manners. People would pay 20p for a sword because they could make that cash in a reasonable time... or they would organize and do the encounter in a reasonable time.

    In economics speak I'd say that real average wages are about the same for items, as they were in 2002. Your farming plat from the game has a similar purchasing power today, than it did in 2002, to gather most items. There are always a few items that people want to hoard. There was a year or two when most people couldn't even get fools bow if they wanted it and tried a lot for it.

    I did get your comment about plat farmers also using the general currency/barter system to gain plat. You're trying to shoot holes in my argument by showing examples of times when the system is closed. I'm not disputing that some transactions are internal, probably most. Much plat farming by farmers is based on demand and every time they pl or farm they do create coin through salvage and cash drops.

    Broadsword is taking measures to change the price of goods.

    Curse gear you can buy from someone for what 20-60p an item... used to be closer to 200p. Triumphant wrap sold for ~150-180p but now someone will sell you one for 60-80p. Broadsword has this well in hand. They can also tie item values to NPC merchants such as infernal merchants. The combination of infernal merchants + BP goods is going to keep inflation muted. Actually I don't believe there's any upward pressure right now, but rather the opposite.
    Post edited by Koe on
  • edited January 12 PM
    So you nitpicked the items that dropped in price cause of increased supply from devaluing their price, ignoring everything else.

    Item prices been inflated for years, and since they couldn't deal with it they just made them easy to get. You speak as it happened fast, while in fact even that took them very long.

    To end this discussion, things missed to mention:
    - Successful games printing ingame cash for $
    - How people deal with increased sinks in effect of doing so, if they don't also want to spend $ on plats.
    - What the hell is the reason to do so if plat is easy to farm as you said, and why people complain on sinks already ingame that likely need to increase more, if you add more plats to the system?

    Edit: Have fun, Im out.
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • Gavner wrote: »
    So you nitpicked the items that dropped in price cause of increased supply from devaluing their price, ignoring everything else.

    Item prices been inflated for years, and since they couldn't deal with it they just made them easy to get. You speak as it happened fast, while in fact even that took them very long.

    To end this discussion, things missed to mention:
    - Successful games printing ingame cash for $
    - How people deal with increased sinks in effect of doing so, if they don't also want to spend $ on plats.
    - What the hell is the reason to do so if plat is easy to farm as you said, and why people complain on sinks already ingame that likely need to increase more, if you add more plats to the system?

    Edit: Have fun, Im out.

    BP prices were just reduced to 1/3rd. That's a TON of items and its placing downward pressure on the value of items, which is all cash is really good for in game.

    You are welcome to let me know what needed items aren't able to be bought with BP's, made with BP's, or gotten with BP's through shards. If I'm nitpicking on this we've got a problem. Actually the base king armor set should be considered now with its upgrade as well. (It's free, just FYI). I'll leave you your out.
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