What are the point of relics?

edited December 2019 in General Board
Is there really a point to keep these in the game?

Hib has had 5/6 of them for the last 2ish weeks if not 3-5 for the last everish?

With how low the population is, and the ability and willingness that hibs show to swapping realms to keep these, it seems pretty wild that they have a perma 10%- 20% bonus to both melee and magic dmg?
  1. Should relics still be in game38 votes
    1. yes
      31.58%
    2. no
      10.53%
    3. change bonus to something passive (xp,bp,coin,other)
      57.89%
Post edited by Namelez on
«134

Comments

  • It gives Hero something to do.
    Da ant familyDa fly familyDa spider family
    https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/daredant
  • edited December 2019 PM
    Currently the big issue is the realm pop disparity between primetimes. Hibernia dominates EU primetime easily, most poeple, best BG leader, all relics, etc etc. Then this translates over to our US pop, where I would say during primetime overall numbers balance out over the course of a week. Some nights albs have more, some nights hibs, some mids.

    As we all know, it takes a bit of strategy to take relics from a realm if they have good population, you need to spread out their defense (having multiple relics makes it harder to defend all of them at once) by
    attacking multiple keeps. With population being so low, the best way to do that these days (as it has been for a long time as well) is for the two realms who are missing relics to gang up on the one realm with the relics.

    Alb refuses to run any tanks, @Rescu gets beat down by Hibernia defense on *coastal keeps* without *any posterns*. Also sometimes he does some pretty baffling stuff, like when Hibs had all 6 relics and Mids were cutting port, he went to hit Crau (which had a Mid relic, while Albs had no relics). We formed a blockade for him (trying to stop any Hibs from getting there to defend, in hopes we could let rescu take the keep then meet him open field to battle it out for the relic), but he either wiped or pulled off.

    Before that, when Hib had 5 relics and Scath was empty, the Mid BG went after nGed and Rescu hit Scath (which had no relics in it at the time) not once............BUT TWICE.

    These are the types of things killing the entire point of having relics, not to mention the insane buffed PBAE has allowed smaller defending/attacking forces to wipe the zergs in defense anyway. I'm sure the PBAE was given out with the intention it would help Midgard and Albion defend against Hero, but maybe if people during EU prime on Mid played tanks (or used carapice when hero climbs over the walls maybe?????), or organized a decent defense, the PBAE buff wouldn't be needed.

    I admit the new PBAE buffs have resulted in some amazing bombs by our most "hardcore" or "try-hard" players, and even though we've been on the receiving end of it, all realms have this same ability. Hero just jumped out in front early by noticing how powerful it is and claiming all the power relics, so now Hibernia will continue to destroy EU prime.

    Currently with the large amount of defense bonuses being given out (broken system IMO) it rewards *only* the defending realm, and does not encourage the other groups in the sieging realm to support the siege whatsoever. IE we have gone after keeps and had the other 8mans roaming around the keep to stop people from getting in, so we were able to use STRATEGY (didn't somebody say strategy should be rewarded? @John_Broadsword) to take a keep from another realm with larger numbers, got little to not keep take bonus (even the players outside), and spent 2-3 hours getting a relic for 15k rps during that time. Meanwhile we can camp a tower, never touch the keep, and the defending realm gets 20k-50k RP's.

    Those defense bonuses have taken the place of daily RP quests, and the extinction of 8vs8 action on the island. I purposely have been taking my BG off the island every single night (despite some people crying about ruining action when we're just passing through) for two reasons: to create action somewhere other than the visual vomit that is EV, and to help 8vs8 action by simply not zerging them down.

    The solution? IMO any solution that solves the US prime problem, or vice versa, will destroy the other primetime. So guess we're just waiting on BS to determine which primetime generates more revenue.
    Post edited by Dale_Perf on
    FoH/Bodycount/Asatruar
    Unsubbed
  • Relics belong to Hibernia. We use them for decoration.
  • Make Relics worth a RP% bonus and they’ll be fought over. lol
  • No they won't. 95% of the remaining pop would flip to hib.
  • Atm maybe 3. is a good option. Still dont know why the underpop bonus is not back...
  • Could you imagine giving this guild more RP bonuses?

    gj88znu43ykb.png

    :D
    FoH/Bodycount/Asatruar
    Unsubbed
  • The point is fun.
  • They belong, but motivation to chase them needs to change. Add a quest that involves taking them, make it worth rp, people will chase them. Action would move to mainland again, and not just bold/glen.
  • What about having them reset after X amount of time has passed if the holding keep isn't attacked?
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • Dreamscape wrote: »
    What about having them reset after X amount of time has passed if the holding keep isn't attacked?

    Yeah like 48 hours or something.

    Da ant familyDa fly familyDa spider family
    https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/daredant
  • With Hib having the relics on top of the new PBAoE and the fact they took away the underpop bonus there is no way Albs or Mids even can ever take the relics back. Just won't happen. Rescu is not smart nor are the albs that follow him. They run all casters but can't assist or disease/debuff one target. And when a fight starts most of them start running away on inc.
  • Badnagen wrote: »
    They belong, but motivation to chase them needs to change. Add a quest that involves taking them, make it worth rp, people will chase them. Action would move to mainland again, and not just bold/glen.

    I agree add a quest to take them as for having them reset that's a waste people will just say wait for them to reset give them a reason to take them back.. end of story there. Rescue tactics sucks he pve keeps he needs tanks and press the attack his million Heretic army is only good for defense. Now I will give big props to The mid zerg leader you have guts you attack attack attack.
    The tactics need to evolve with the abilities of the toons and the make up of the zerg that's plain and simple.
    To end this Hero really doesn't give a crap about relics I have seen him open a relic gate and just leave the area ( It kinda makes me mad because we put in all that work and he walks away ) ,My crew has had to press the attack and take them or other groups. It does bring action to main land Hib during prime time US which is nice. On that note see you on the battlefield
    Macwynne, Hero
    Bullorama Warden

  • Badgor wrote: »
    Badnagen wrote: »
    They belong, but motivation to chase them needs to change. Add a quest that involves taking them, make it worth rp, people will chase them. Action would move to mainland again, and not just bold/glen.

    I agree add a quest to take them as for having them reset that's a waste people will just say wait for them to reset give them a reason to take them back.. end of story there. Rescue tactics sucks he pve keeps he needs tanks and press the attack his million Heretic army is only good for defense. Now I will give big props to The mid zerg leader you have guts you attack attack attack.
    The tactics need to evolve with the abilities of the toons and the make up of the zerg that's plain and simple.
    To end this Hero really doesn't give a crap about relics I have seen him open a relic gate and just leave the area ( It kinda makes me mad because we put in all that work and he walks away ) ,My crew has had to press the attack and take them or other groups. It does bring action to main land Hib during prime time US which is nice. On that note see you on the battlefield

    I think anything you have to say is null and void given you stealth zerg with a full group+ and area a HUGE factor as to why people stop playing the game.
  • I think pbaoe need to be reverted back to the way it was and as for the relics if you put a resets time on them make it like 2-3 weeks but if not thats okay. For seige bonuses make it the same for attackers and defenders(not giving defenders a 2xbonuses for defending a keep). And i like the idea of a rp reward quest for taking the relics, or a rp bonuses when you capture or return one.
  • Dreamscape wrote: »
    What about having them reset after X amount of time has passed if the holding keep isn't attacked?

    Then you can just wait for reset. No need to take them back.
  • edited December 2019 PM
    tbd
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • Badgor wrote: »
    Badnagen wrote: »
    They belong, but motivation to chase them needs to change. Add a quest that involves taking them, make it worth rp, people will chase them. Action would move to mainland again, and not just bold/glen.

    I agree add a quest to take them as for having them reset that's a waste people will just say wait for them to reset give them a reason to take them back.. end of story there. Rescue tactics sucks he pve keeps he needs tanks and press the attack his million Heretic army is only good for defense. Now I will give big props to The mid zerg leader you have guts you attack attack attack.
    The tactics need to evolve with the abilities of the toons and the make up of the zerg that's plain and simple.
    To end this Hero really doesn't give a crap about relics I have seen him open a relic gate and just leave the area ( It kinda makes me mad because we put in all that work and he walks away ) ,My crew has had to press the attack and take them or other groups. It does bring action to main land Hib during prime time US which is nice. On that note see you on the battlefield

    I think anything you have to say is null and void given you stealth zerg with a full group+ and area a HUGE factor as to why people stop playing the game.

    Hmmmm I pay for my accounts so I do get a say plus I play more visi then I do stealth because they nerfed the crap out of us NS. Your just a troll on the forums get friends get stealth lore and come and kill me
    Macwynne, Hero
    Bullorama Warden

  • Kroko wrote: »
    Dreamscape wrote: »
    What about having them reset after X amount of time has passed if the holding keep isn't attacked?

    Then you can just wait for reset. No need to take them back.

    I'd advocate for that.

    This game was designed around an idea of population. When population dwindled, they adjusted the best they could.. they tried to congregate numbers by dumping everyone onto one server instead of leaving them spread out. while this helped short term, the fact is that population doesnt sustain the original game style that it did when servers had 2000 people playing it.

    There is very little purpose in taking something (a relic), when you know its going to be gone again tomorrow. There is no fundamental return to do it. It's the gaming version of the movie "Friday". If Deebo is just gonna steal your bike every day, why do you waste your time trying to get it back every day. Just let him have it. :wink:
  • rps for defending toons that dont get a killing blow or rez---would help

    and of course a real realm timer lol..............................................................
  • 47el wrote: »
    rps for defending toons that dont get a killing blow or rez---would help

    and of course a real realm timer lol..............................................................

    giving bonus to defending is the problem, people jump when something lights because its free realm points most of the time. (realm timers woudent hurt, but a vocal part of the community hates the idea of bringing back realm pride (there is only one server now so I see their point about wanting to experience all of the game)). Like mentioned above it might be good to give bonuses to the attacker (making more incentive to move the relics between realms)
  • Realm pride has been suggested multiple times. I strongly advocated for it and I do believe to some extent JBS and the team believe some iteration of "realm pride" bonuses will one day be implemented; however, realm timers will never be implemented again. It's just not gonna happen, they shut that idea down multiple times.
  • Realm pride has been suggested multiple times. I strongly advocated for it and I do believe to some extent JBS and the team believe some iteration of "realm pride" bonuses will one day be implemented; however, realm timers will never be implemented again. It's just not gonna happen, they shut that idea down multiple times.

    We have a realm timer its 15 min for paying players and 3 hours for EC IMO make it 30 min for paying players.
    Plus if there is no defense bonus no one will defend because there is zero incentive to defend then. The game is based on rewards and to climb the rp ladder. Only way to get realm pride back is to have a bonus and longer timers.
    Macwynne, Hero
    Bullorama Warden

  • Badgor wrote: »
    Realm pride has been suggested multiple times. I strongly advocated for it and I do believe to some extent JBS and the team believe some iteration of "realm pride" bonuses will one day be implemented; however, realm timers will never be implemented again. It's just not gonna happen, they shut that idea down multiple times.

    We have a realm timer its 15 min for paying players and 3 hours for EC IMO make it 30 min for paying players.
    Plus if there is no defense bonus no one will defend because there is zero incentive to defend then. The game is based on rewards and to climb the rp ladder. Only way to get realm pride back is to have a bonus and longer timers.

    Realm timer is 15 minutes for subscribers upon earning RPs from a kill (counts even if /rp off). EC accounts have a 4 hour realm timer with the same condition.
    "We are Broadsword. We have a passion for growing and evolving interconnected online worlds. We believe in quality and strive to deliver compelling content, energized communities and top tier service to all of our players. We are all passionate gamers and we love to work with our communities of committed, hard-core gamers. In the end, for us Broadswordians, it's all about providing an unparalleled experience to Every Player, Every Day"
    - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • Tyrantanic wrote: »
    Badgor wrote: »
    Realm pride has been suggested multiple times. I strongly advocated for it and I do believe to some extent JBS and the team believe some iteration of "realm pride" bonuses will one day be implemented; however, realm timers will never be implemented again. It's just not gonna happen, they shut that idea down multiple times.

    We have a realm timer its 15 min for paying players and 3 hours for EC IMO make it 30 min for paying players.
    Plus if there is no defense bonus no one will defend because there is zero incentive to defend then. The game is based on rewards and to climb the rp ladder. Only way to get realm pride back is to have a bonus and longer timers.

    Realm timer is 15 minutes for subscribers upon earning RPs from a kill (counts even if /rp off). EC accounts have a 4 hour realm timer with the same condition.

    Yes I just didn't go into the details of that .. PVE away you get a rp your locked down as it should be, but it needs to be longer
    Macwynne, Hero
    Bullorama Warden

  • Badgor wrote: »
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    Badgor wrote: »
    Realm pride has been suggested multiple times. I strongly advocated for it and I do believe to some extent JBS and the team believe some iteration of "realm pride" bonuses will one day be implemented; however, realm timers will never be implemented again. It's just not gonna happen, they shut that idea down multiple times.

    We have a realm timer its 15 min for paying players and 3 hours for EC IMO make it 30 min for paying players.
    Plus if there is no defense bonus no one will defend because there is zero incentive to defend then. The game is based on rewards and to climb the rp ladder. Only way to get realm pride back is to have a bonus and longer timers.

    Realm timer is 15 minutes for subscribers upon earning RPs from a kill (counts even if /rp off). EC accounts have a 4 hour realm timer with the same condition.

    Yes I just didn't go into the details of that .. PVE away you get a rp your locked down as it should be, but it needs to be longer

    Oh wow, thank you for the correction. I missed that change in the time I've been away. That's good to know.
  • edited December 2019 PM
    They initially started the EC patch with a longer realm timer https://darkageofcamelot.com/article/friday-grab-bag-07052019, but ultimately settled on 15 minutes if you earn an rp from a kill.

    15 minutes was just a smack in the face to some. But apparently either enough people complained and thats what they settled on, or the white knights shared their infinite knowledge and here we are. IMO 15 isnt worth it, but i've learned to adjust. Its easy enough to find something else to occupy my time if the game becomes frustrating anymore.
    Post edited by Sleepwell on
  • Sitting at 5 weeks and counting with hibs having 5+ relics


    Sick
  • edited December 2019 PM
    I like the relics but it be nice if they reset over time. Also i wish they would change the relic temples to something better for seige warfare. Also defense and population bonuses were great
    Post edited by Sepphiroth75 on
  • I bet Bs's response to hibs having 5 for 5 weeks

    "Working as intended"

    Lol
  • null
    Meh, I played Mordred for years and Sin Vida had all relics for like a decade it seems. You get used to it
  • Which relic you want? Maybe we can sell one.
  • I want the Relic of My Forgotten Youth. lol
  • The pbaoe changes were yet another disaster inspired from the internal boards narrow niche group of players who once again demonstrated they don’t listen.
    As people have stated the result is hib with 5 relics with no prospect of return.
    Anyone could tell you that the reason hero takes keeps and relics is not the defending realms lack of pbaoe it’s the numbers of his Zerg organisation and the hib tank group being the meta in the game
    In fact I’m sure players on hib chuckled at yet more power came in via the patch for there many played pbaoe classes.
    Several posters have posted well rescue fails because he dosent run tanks well there is a reason for that no one wants to run tanks on alb because
    Alb tanks have fallen way behind.
    You can make a good alb tank group but it’s specialised and needs careful setting up but a full assist Heavy tank train is a pain in the ass and just dosent work I’ll only run my armsman now if I think I can get the right set up and that doesn’t happen very often.
    Alb also has the red headed step child of classes the reaver which I was told before I got booted from the internal boards was not seen as a group class and basically broadsword were giving up on it .
    There was an extensive thread on the armsman class and its limitations nothing came of it but then again I didn’t expect that to happen.
    Hib dominates at the moment because hib utility is the best in game making a group on hib requires 3 things bard Druid warden then fill with dps it’s ideal for zergs much more easy to form a group than on alb you have to compromise or lose out on an ability.
    As for the relic situation I have resigned my self to the situation in some ways it’s better for eu Albs we no longer need to defend anything and certainty people who run with me won’t unless we have equal numbers or a good set of 8 mans.

    The other advantage is because hib has most of the Zerg players now playing alb we get a lot more substandard hib players to kill
    We employ the scorched earth policy of letting hero take keeps then avoiding him and only running small groups of 16 man setups taking 5 relics was pretty dumb on his part because he has largely killed his action but we can live with it.
    It’s pretty sad that the game has been reduced to this but hey you were told several times but once again no one is listening.
  • KatKat
    edited December 2019 PM
    When I first read this thread, I did not agree with resetting. But..if a realm has 5 relics for this long, there is something wrong with the balance. With population so low, maybe it is time for relic resets..but make it long. And maybe a huge amount of rps for delivering relic, and for all those in the area and bg...so people dont get dumb about who gets credit. Rps are not being handed out anymore...so make one hard task worth it.

    The reward would encourage a realm to not just wait out a long timer...but if, even with a nice incentive, the relics dont change for weeks...then again, there is something seriously wrong with realm balance and a reset should happen

    I usually don't chime into paper daoc conversations, because I truly do not believe BS listens..but this current relic situation is a joke
    Post edited by Kat on
    Stealth zergs are a cancer
  • Thats alot of whining.
  • Population would solve the issue. On Mid during EU time defending against Hero, his BG has 1 hero for every pbae we can find. During US prime, all of hibernia flock to defend for the crazy defense bonuses, and one group dominates with the new Pbae setup.

    Would hero have 1 hero for every mid pbae if we doubled the mid pop in NF? (today there was 40 mids in NF, roughly half defending glen) No.

    If the mid and alb zergs regularly ran 80+ (instead of 40+) and still had a couple flank groups, would hibs still have all the relics? likely not.

    if there was decent 8v8 population on the island, would every single hib in the game flock to defend? possibly with the broken keep defense bonuses.

    The only thing I will cede to the "broken balance" involving pbae is that a hib group can run more PBAE than mid groups because their pbae spec is their debuff line. so hib groups can run 5 pbae / 3 support and still have a debuff train, while mid would have to run 4 pbae / 1 debuffer / 3 support. but not enough on mid run true pac healers and even have a clue what amnesia does to counter this



    FoH/Bodycount/Asatruar
    Unsubbed
  • I dont see many bombs in hib, dont know what the problem with that is.
  • I still dont know why they took away population bonuses. They should bring them back, with a window on the login launcher that shows who is lower in numbers. This would get many of the advanced players to log onto the less populated realm and create balanced action
  • It's almost like BS made some terrible design choices. Color me shocked.
    "We are Broadsword. We have a passion for growing and evolving interconnected online worlds. We believe in quality and strive to deliver compelling content, energized communities and top tier service to all of our players. We are all passionate gamers and we love to work with our communities of committed, hard-core gamers. In the end, for us Broadswordians, it's all about providing an unparalleled experience to Every Player, Every Day"
    - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • edited December 2019 PM
    Or, they actually want people to quit and walk away so they can shut it down. There are some decent ideas in here that should have been in the EC patch from the get go. I fear that EC pushed the returnees away already and in some cases pushed some regulars to quit as well.

    I mean if HIB just wants to finish it off keep going. I have a feeling Hero has left Mid str relic alone because he knows taking it is detrimental to the overall health of the server.

    Getting Alb relics back would help everyone but some folks will just switch realms to thwart their own team.
    Post edited by Rok1 on
  • again: defense. bonuses. are. broken.

    With the removal of the 25k rp quests, players have filled that void with 10k, 20k, and in some cases 50k rp bonuses from defending relic keeps. It attracts every single Hib on to the keep under fire so they can all share in a big bonus.

    not to mention the fact there is no 8v8 action, so theres not exactly any alternative to gaining RP's if the zergs are hitting keeps. and rescu has the tactical IQ of a melon so that doesnt help anybody getting their relics back.
    FoH/Bodycount/Asatruar
    Unsubbed
  • so instead of runnin wit the alb zerg and switching to hib after rescu listens to them asking for a relic take---
    they run a nice chanter bomb group---and make some nice open field hits :)
  • How about moving the Dragon Lairs onto EV where Bugg was and when defeated IT would capture(selected by the character with the Death Blow or /random) a relic?
  • edited December 2019 PM
    Rok1 wrote: »
    I mean if HIB just wants to finish it off keep going.
    So what can we do now? Are we doing sth wrong? Tell me, and ill do it.

    But definitely BS should adress this issue.
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • How is it that the mid Zerg during prime time can whoop our Hib zerg in open combat and not take a relic? I do agree that BS needs to up the bonus for offensive keep takes but leave the defense bonus as it is because its based on kills. You don't want the realm hoppers to jump for relic defense make the timers longer. My hib guild even said we would think about playing Albs but Rescue likes to PVE keeps and towers so that pretty much killed that. Now Mid We would do but my guild doesn't run discord to much of a bandwidth hog and no one types in a bg chat but its not hard to figure out where your zerg is going .
    Macwynne, Hero
    Bullorama Warden

  • Badgor wrote: »
    How is it that the mid Zerg during prime time can whoop our Hib zerg in open combat and not take a relic? I do agree that BS needs to up the bonus for offensive keep takes but leave the defense bonus as it is because its based on kills. You don't want the realm hoppers to jump for relic defense make the timers longer. My hib guild even said we would think about playing Albs but Rescue likes to PVE keeps and towers so that pretty much killed that. Now Mid We would do but my guild doesn't run discord to much of a bandwidth hog and no one types in a bg chat but its not hard to figure out where your zerg is going .

    just wondering----do you run wit hero :)
  • 47el wrote: »
    Badgor wrote: »
    How is it that the mid Zerg during prime time can whoop our Hib zerg in open combat and not take a relic? I do agree that BS needs to up the bonus for offensive keep takes but leave the defense bonus as it is because its based on kills. You don't want the realm hoppers to jump for relic defense make the timers longer. My hib guild even said we would think about playing Albs but Rescue likes to PVE keeps and towers so that pretty much killed that. Now Mid We would do but my guild doesn't run discord to much of a bandwidth hog and no one types in a bg chat but its not hard to figure out where your zerg is going .

    just wondering----do you run wit hero :)

    Nope I don't . I run with Jedi during US prime time
    Macwynne, Hero
    Bullorama Warden

  • KatKat
    edited December 2019 PM
    Albs and Mids should coordinate one evening and work together to get back relics. This is not against TOS, Many years ago, Alb was dominate on a server I played. Mythic sanctioned hibs and mids working together, and they got their relics back. IIRC, the leaders were in same vent..but not sure on that. But, I do think they were communicationg
    Post edited by Kat on
    Stealth zergs are a cancer
  • We have tryd working together with the albs and not ajing them when they go for a keep. We then go for our own keep or keep running over the hibs trying to get to the keep rescue is the problem is still the pbaoe and the fact that people still change realms to hib and most just got straight to hib because they have all the relics. So the onething i hope for is that when the new classic server comes out they make it so you cant play more then one realm at a time. (Like it was to start with had to delete your toons to play the other realm).
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