Bonedancers

@John_Broadsword @Carol_Broadsword

Are there any plans to fix this class? The pet pathing and coding (especially on the sub pets) is worthless, it's gotten so bad nobody is playing Bonedancers for groups. Other classes that had horrible pet pathing got their issue fixed. Doesn't help that Bonedancer is one of the two classes on mid with TWF, the other is mauler. The class has lots of unique and interesting toys which just go to waste with nobody playing it in RvR.
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
send a message with your wallet

Comments

  • Agreed. The amount of utility it can bring to a group is wasted due to frustrating pathing issues that make it a "non-choice" for almost all players and makes a hole in group composition for Midgard as a realm.
  • BD's are needed in RvR period.
  • I would have to agree with the above .. I dont play my BD due to pathing of pets and my BG is suffering because we need to have our classes that have ST and TWF are broken.
  • When playing BD in group it feels like I spend half the evening apologizing. Either to pause while I horse. Pause for pets. Loop for pets. Pets fall through earth and get aggro. You can never get any momentum because of all this going on.
  • Please fix the issues presented for bonedancers, Midgard needs twf
  • I also will say that after r5 i havent played my BD in 2+years, to annoying of a class to play in pvp, it needs to be redesigned as a whole imo, the main change to having a dread lord was great but if it isnt around to fight 90% of the time whats the point? Sub pets constantly mia , i cant count how many times i had to release the main pet because i could recast subpets after they took off.
  • I couldnt ^
  • Maybe not re-designed as a whole, but a fix or change to the sub-pets pathing/coding is needed. Half the time the bone menders aren't healing. As soon as they hit something in melee they get stuck in Melee, they usually never heal again. The rest of the pets pathing is just horrible. Theyre always falling behind unless youre on a horse (not sure why, maybe just easier for them to stick/follow).
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • I don't think you guys want BS to redesign BDs like they did Necromancers. However, pet pathing could use some love in general.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • Like going thro the mile walls in ev no matter what pet class you are the pets seen to oways go around the wall which takes like 20 to 30 secs to catch up if you wait for them but lets say your chaceing or running away from something they are basically gone for ever and you dont have time to tope and wait or recast them
  • Yeah it's def frustrating. You can do things that help with pet patgiv, like use banana instead of going through the MG, hug the left side of the doorway when going through a MG, never go on bridges, always go in water, avoid km at all costs.

    But it does make the evening a pita
  • edited November 2019 PM
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    I don't think you guys want BS to redesign BDs like they did Necromancers. However, pet pathing could use some love in general.

    Agreed, keep the class structure as is, I think it's pretty dynamic and unique as is. Just the pets are worthless. Either fix the pathing/coding, and if it's not possible just remove the subpets and give them something else.
    Post edited by Dale_Perf on
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • edited November 2019 PM


    Edit: Maybe if the sub pets were scripted to follow the character and not the dread lord/main pet they might follow better.

    Post edited by Dale_Perf on
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • I've been saying this for years and the solution is so mother-effing simple it blows my mind that Broadsword hasn't just done it... Make a "Recall" spell for pet classes that they can use to recall their pets directly to them. Put it on a mild RU timer like 1:30, and make the cast time 4.0 seconds (or maybe not available in combat, for exploit reasons).

    I agree, BD class is almost useless due to terrible pathing issues which @Broadsword simply cannot fix, due to old code or whatever, but I think that should be on the top priority after fine-tuning EC
  • Armagedden wrote: »
    I've been saying this for years and the solution is so mother-effing simple it blows my mind that Broadsword hasn't just done it... Make a "Recall" spell for pet classes that they can use to recall their pets directly to them. Put it on a mild RU timer like 1:30, and make the cast time 4.0 seconds (or maybe not available in combat, for exploit reasons).

    I agree, BD class is almost useless due to terrible pathing issues which @Broadsword simply cannot fix, due to old code or whatever, but I think that should be on the top priority after fine-tuning EC

    Just make it an instant spell not usable in combat and after for at least 60 sec.
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • My BD died so many times because my pets suddenly decided to run off to some random pathing point, while the enemy happily beat me up.

    For groups the best you can do is to summon the caster pets, they at least won't run around like crazy. I once tried the new commander with 2 healers and 3 melees in a group. Once. I think I aggroed every mob there was in that dungeon with my pets walking through all walls, floors and ceilings. And the moment one of the healers got aggro it became even worse...
  • Menos wrote: »
    My BD died so many times because my pets suddenly decided to run off to some random pathing point, while the enemy happily beat me up.

    For groups the best you can do is to summon the caster pets, they at least won't run around like crazy. I once tried the new commander with 2 healers and 3 melees in a group. Once. I think I aggroed every mob there was in that dungeon with my pets walking through all walls, floors and ceilings. And the moment one of the healers got aggro it became even worse...

    @John_Broadsword

    Animists work great and so do Thuergs. When will we fix mid's pet class?
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • While I agree that BD’s need a look to play devils advocate they went virtually untouched for two years after the pet revamp.
    The OJ Commander with a 9 second stun was in the game for so long then it got nerfed down to 7 seconds.
    Soooooooo
  • edited November 2019 PM
    Dale_Perf wrote: »
    Animists work great and so do Thuergs. When will we fix mid's pet class?

    Animist can summon their DD bomber pets through the window of a keep and have them walk around the entire keep, up the stairs and into the lord's room, also Theurg pets suffer from the same pathing issue, but both are short-lived, so it doesn't really matter if they take a silly turn every now and then. For BDs 90% of your damage and defense vanish if the pets decide to take the shortcut through 3 keeps to hit the guy in front of you, so they suffer much more from the same issue. Also that healer pet's silly feature to wander around if hit is just stupid.

    The worst part about it is that it would be very easy to fix at least the worst parts of it, but nobody seems to want to touch that code. Since Broadsword dedicated an entire patch to fix pet classes I feel that they really want to fix those issues, but can't. The pet code is probably one hell of a mess that no one dares to touch, because if they do and adjust the pathing of BD healer pets keeps also suddenly turn upside down, bows fire in reverse and Albs suddenly learn how to play as a group.
    Post edited by Menos on
  • It ain’t just bds minstrel pet pathing is still messed up like the recall idea looks a very simple and easy fix for all pet classes
  • I don't think pets have any issues aside from EV and keeps. A BD isn't a great keep class in any case.

    For EV, I didn't get to play in Agramon, but I suspect the pathing must have been less of a pain than EV? Afaik EV was put on top of Agramon, so a lot of the pathing glitches are related to that.

    Remove EV and put back Agramon?
  • Shoke wrote: »
    I don't think pets have any issues aside from EV and keeps. A BD isn't a great keep class in any case.

    For EV, I didn't get to play in Agramon, but I suspect the pathing must have been less of a pain than EV? Afaik EV was put on top of Agramon, so a lot of the pathing glitches are related to that.

    Remove EV and put back Agramon?

    Bridges, tight spaces, keeps, any pve zone, DF and i'm sure i'm missing a few.

    I personally liked when pets were a tad OPed. 75% of the time they derped, but in that rare 25% of the time the stars aligned and your commander ran the right direction, it sure was nice.
  • LffLff
    edited November 2019 PM
    Make one spec (Suppression) where it's not pet heavy. Give them the one main lvl 40 caster pet similar to animists, and then bombers instead of the low delve aoedd/snare. That way you can play a BD in big siege rvr/8mans without being so dependent on pets if you so choose.

    I tried BD but often when porting one or more of your subpets runs off but is still in group so you can't summon another. Very normal to find yourself with only commander and 1 extra pet and unable to summon more. Releasing pet and recasting is not happy group time.
    Post edited by Lff on
  • Every pet has the same jacked up mechanics that bug pets out. BD’s normally have several pets making it more noticeable because BD is pet dependent a majority of the time it’s played. Every single pet bugs out in EV, over bridges, around structures. I mean look at the brittle guard. Cast it on a non-pet class and it runs off until you move, then it snaps back. Pet pathing cannot be fixed. It would have been by now if they could.

    TC
  • Pathing has been fixed in other places so it's definitely possible. I suspect the code being built around is just different enough that it would cause more problems than fix without rewriting core components of the game. So either DAoC 2.0 or CU.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • Lff wrote: »
    Make one spec (Suppression) where it's not pet heavy.

    BDs already have that, it's Darkness. But then you play a Bone Dancer because it is a pet class, and not because you want to be a gimped Runemaster.
  • edited November 2019 PM
    I still don't think there should be any major class changes to Bonedancer, just a fix of the pets. The best way to keep anything from getting too OP or crazy is just fix the pet pathing. @Thjo suggested simply copying the pet pathing from brittle guards, since those little guys follow you around almost everywhere.


    BD's were broken for two years, so lets not make them playable again and alienate a lot of players that specifically like that class. Think we should just fix the pet pathing.
    Post edited by Dale_Perf on
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • I'm pretty sure Brittle Guard pathing is no different. They just move at speed 10 so they catch up to you nearly instantaneously.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • Ah well that wouldn't help.
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • edited November 2019 PM
    BD’s where broken for three years actually they got nerfed last out of every single pet caster. Then finally they removed the stun completely and dropped the Commander to yellow con instead.
    Easy to forget when Mid was taking advantage of other realms isn’t it?
    I agree that pathing should be fixed, but as stated it’s worst on EV and a lot of it isn’t BD specific it’s pet specific.
    A few patches back pets got even worse like in POC they disappear into the walls in he midst of fighting meleeing a mob. Brand new pet bug recently introduced.

    GL
    Post edited by Fateboi on
  • Fateboi wrote: »
    BD’s where broken for three years actually they got nerfed last out of every single pet caster. Then finally they removed the stun completely and dropped the Commander to yellow con instead.
    Easy to forget when Mid was taking advantage of other realms isn’t it?
    Necros? Your point is still based on Bonedancers USED to be good, so we should make their pets trash now. No, just fix the pathing and stop bringing up the past.
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • And wouldn't better pet pathing help us all? ;)
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • Dale_Perf wrote: »
    And wouldn't better pet pathing help us all? ;)

    Indeed. There are a lot of pet classes that have their troubles.

    One thing Broadsword could do would be to move the pathing code to the client. That way they can actually use modern pathing algorithms (they can simply copy that form any game out there) without straining the servers. And for verification the server just has to use the same movement checks that are used for players.
  • Honestly, do we really want all these pets to work as intended? Idk how many times....if only my pet was around :s
  • Maybe somebody will finally take a look at the non-cc-able minstrel pet :o
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • Minstrel charm has been the same since old frontiers. Also fairly certain a mentalist can charm an OJ? Also mid got charm on the Hunter and then BDs/SM has good pets as well.
    Maybe they can fix the SM Valk pet so it’s a bit tankier idk for some flavor.
  • Fateboi wrote: »
    Minstrel charm has been the same since old frontiers. Also fairly certain a mentalist can charm an OJ? Also mid got charm on the Hunter and then BDs/SM has good pets as well.
    Maybe they can fix the SM Valk pet so it’s a bit tankier idk for some flavor.

    Mentalist has the capacity to utilize pet charm to remove CC the same as minstril, this is correct.
  • Lol be only class with pet problems... I bet they all have the same code, bds just have more (it's a statistics thing). But this has been a problem since the beginning. But making classes have more pets or be more reliant on them was a dumb move in my opinion.
  • Pet path has got worse since I last played (mid-2018's).
  • while they're at it...make pet scare actually work against BD pets. I saw the grab bag explanation on why it doesn't but IMO that just means they need to fix it.
  • Mace80 wrote: »
    while they're at it...make pet scare actually work against BD pets. I saw the grab bag explanation on why it doesn't but IMO that just means they need to fix it.

    They use the grab bag to deny that bugs exist sometimes. It's like we're getting trolled with "working as intended" from BS.
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword
    send a message with your wallet
  • Fateboi wrote: »
    While I agree that BD’s need a look to play devils advocate they went virtually untouched for two years after the pet revamp.
    The OJ Commander with a 9 second stun was in the game for so long then it got nerfed down to 7 seconds.
    Soooooooo

    Not to mention it catching people on speed 6.
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • edited December 2019 PM
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    I don't think you guys want BS to redesign BDs like they did Necromancers. However, pet pathing could use some love in general.

    lol

    my thoughts exactly.

    the problem is BS's ability to fix stuff ... and when they change stuff, oh my god. they change stuff with unforseen consequences and instead of undoing the the change to counter the unforeseen consequences they change something else to counter the unforseen effect they created and they create a new avalanche of unforseen side effects.

    the thing is, if they would have told people in advance about the change they would have received feedback about the NEGATIVE effects of the changes, but they just force feed their changes with all the catastrophical effects.

    pet pathing should be addressed !
    Post edited by Muylae on
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • Bonedancer and reavers are the two classes that by far made the fewest rps this year, which is interesting since solo seems to have become a larger part of the game vs past years.
  • edited January 1 PM
    Koe wrote: »
    Bonedancer and reavers are the two classes that by far made the fewest rps this year, which is interesting since solo seems to have become a larger part of the game vs past years.

    BDs main PvP spec got a heavy nerf, and frankly it was necessary. The three specs are now balanced in PvP terms, however the counters are not, and that is giving BDs a major headache.

    Darkness has hard hitting nukes and an ae instant-interrupt, which makes Darkness BDs a strong foe against enemy casters. However only until MoC comes into place and renders the interrupt useless, at which point Dark BDs are nothing but a gimped caster.

    Suppression is strong against low-to-medium damage melees as you can drain more HP than the other one can remove while adding lots of debuffs into the mix. The problem is that high dps melees are the common playstyle atm, so Sup-BDs can't survive long enough to kill. But they can't buff Sup, as otherwise BDs would always win every fight. Essentially the whole spec concept is broken and should be reworked. I'd turn that into a group healing spec tbh, it would make Sup BDs actually useful in RvR. Like having the life drain heal the group and buff the healing pets to be able to heal the group members as well.

    Army BD is the swiss knife skill, you can always prepare the right mix of pets for every situation. However only if you can actually prepare for the situation, because with the wrong setup you are useless. Also AE-mezz erases 90% of your damage, and assassins one-shot about 1 minute of summoning and buffing. And then there are all the pet issues. Army BDs should be able to save multiple pet setups and be able to summon them with buffs with just one cast. That way BDs could switch their setup according to the fight without having to summon and buff for half an eternity.

    Also BDs need an auto demezz as an ability for the commander that will demezz the entire pet setup automatically (with an appropriate cooldown). That way the whole class can't just be disabled with a single spell. BDs do have a spammable demezz spell, but try to cast that at your pet that just took the shortcut through godknowshwere, with zero information about how your pets are doing, as they all run out of sight once again.

    All the other issues with the class will be fixed if they ever fix the pet AI.
    Post edited by Menos on
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