Incentivize BG leading?

One thing I have noticed is that leadership = population. The past few months it has become very obvious that if/when a BG is running regularly the population of that realm is healthier. When Rescu was sick a couple of weeks ago Alb was pathetic.... Mids recently have struggled.... but with Rescue's recovery and with Gavner now leading on weekends we've seen some resurgence.

My question is.... should BS incentivize BG Leading....maybe offer discounted accounts as a result? It is a thankless job but so vital to the health of our game!
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  • Good idea. Maybe more RPS for the BG leader?
  • The incentive is the outcome: big fights. No need for BS to get involved in a problem that stems from the community.
  • The incentive is the outcome: big fights. No need for BS to get involved in a problem that stems from the community.

    Sure theoretically. But practically speaking, given how vital BGs are to game action, and given that they can be a pain to run, why not reward the BG leader somehow?

    It is ok for BS to help resolve community issues with small changes to the game.
  • The incentive is the outcome: big fights. No need for BS to get involved in a problem that stems from the community.

    You're right in a way @Beetleguisse, but the community needs policing sometimes. It has also been mentioned that realm timers are a community problem. Being a jerk in region/tells/bgs the realm is a community problem as well. Some people love to be jerks though, so BS steps in with CSR's and handles the trouble makers. I'd have no problem if there was incentive to lead a BG. You're doing great at it on hib. I have dabbled in it but have no desire to lead like that. More power to those that do.
  • stewbeedoo wrote: »
    The incentive is the outcome: big fights. No need for BS to get involved in a problem that stems from the community.

    Sure theoretically. But practically speaking, given how vital BGs are to game action, and given that they can be a pain to run, why not reward the BG leader somehow?

    It is ok for BS to help resolve community issues with small changes to the game.

    No incentive can be introduced without adding an opportunity to exploit it. A similar topic was brought up before regarding stealth intel in a BG. These are all voluntary aspects of the game and are community driven.
  • stewbeedoo wrote: »
    The incentive is the outcome: big fights. No need for BS to get involved in a problem that stems from the community.

    Sure theoretically. But practically speaking, given how vital BGs are to game action, and given that they can be a pain to run, why not reward the BG leader somehow?

    It is ok for BS to help resolve community issues with small changes to the game.

    No incentive can be introduced without adding an opportunity to exploit it. A similar topic was brought up before regarding stealth intel in a BG. These are all voluntary aspects of the game and are community driven.

    All incentives could be exploited? I can think of many that couldn't be. For example, a BG must have a minimum size and after xxx BG kills the leader gets an RP bonus.
  • I dont think rewarding leader should be something, but rather making it easier to lead. I tried before to become a new leader in Midgard years ago but it was hell just trying to lead it, thats why I dont now. Give leaders more options, or ways to command better. Instead of telling everyone "Groups are full, make a new one" and no one does, make it to where you can somehow control that. Give me a window where i can see which classes are in which groups in my bg so I can tell that 3rd healer in that 1 group to switch with that Thane in the other group because they only have 1 healer...things like that
  • stewbeedoo wrote: »
    stewbeedoo wrote: »
    The incentive is the outcome: big fights. No need for BS to get involved in a problem that stems from the community.

    Sure theoretically. But practically speaking, given how vital BGs are to game action, and given that they can be a pain to run, why not reward the BG leader somehow?

    It is ok for BS to help resolve community issues with small changes to the game.

    No incentive can be introduced without adding an opportunity to exploit it. A similar topic was brought up before regarding stealth intel in a BG. These are all voluntary aspects of the game and are community driven.

    All incentives could be exploited? I can think of many that couldn't be. For example, a BG must have a minimum size and after xxx BG kills the leader gets an RP bonus.

    Imposing a minimum BG size means only large BGs benefit from the bonus. Not having one means small groups can exploit the bonus. Adding a BG kill count to obtain a bonus will incentivize larger numbers rolling over smaller numbers (insert all kill quests here). There is no easy way to implement this without introducing a problem. Unless you can gather sufficient evidence to support that this feature will increase leadership, I highly doubt its implementation will solve a community-based issue. No RP bonus convinced me to start leading a BG.
  • The more i think about it, i don't see a way around it. It IS completely community driven. Unless you set rules sustained by BS, then the community does have complete control. Want to win?, flip realms to the higher bg realm and overrun and dominate (community choice). Pretty much every x factor you enter into the equation can be manipulated by adding or subracting Y and Z. At one time there was community/realm pride. The game is so driven by RPs now that the community as a whole chases that. A great example is the ghost keep. Or relics. There is literally no incentive now for US BG leaders to take relics. The community flips on a whim. to.
  • Yeah don't add "incentives" to get people to lead, people don't lead because its a pain. I ask to make that pain not so great anymore, more will be willing to lead then. Adding in special windows for leaders to use to help control their BG better does not add exploit possibilities.
  • Imposing a minimum BG size means only large BGs benefit from the bonus. Not having one means small groups can exploit the bonus. Adding a BG kill count to obtain a bonus will incentivize larger numbers rolling over smaller numbers (insert all kill quests here). There is no easy way to implement this without introducing a problem. Unless you can gather sufficient evidence to support that this feature will increase leadership, I highly doubt its implementation will solve a community-based issue. No RP bonus convinced me to start leading a BG.

    This.

    Personally im tired of all games thise days, throwing rewards at everything people dont want to do cause it isnt fun.

    Want players to do things ?
    Then imo.
    1. Make it fun for people to do those things. ( Tools, bug fixes etc )
    2. Be nice to people that actualy lead things and respect their alone time in games when they dont wanna do things. ( The tell hells you can end up in at times when you just wanna solo, duo or be with guildies, can be quite anoying, i dont know if its like this anymore, but in the past atleast have lead to the making of no name alts/accounts to be on )
    3. Want to reward people for doing BG's and spending their time leading a community ? Then the community can throw em some ingame currency, kind words, help them, bring siege, etc.

    I dont think throwing plats, RP's, BP's, whatever at problems will fix them. ( Like realm % bonus stuff didnt fix anything )
  • Window/group/solos wasnt the issue when i atttempted. It was coordination. Everything nowadays leads back to community. If people want to follow they will. If people all want to get into one discord or chat program they will..... or they won't. When they won't coordination is piss poor. What i experienced in the past was a BG leader chastising members of a bg in a voice program. The problem was that the people he needed to talk to were not in discord (Ventrillo or Teamspeak). Again, its a community problem. If people do not want to follow, then its a fruitless endeavor. You have to have buy in from the population for a BG to be successful. If you're suggesting a way to manipulate groups to fit the BG leaders strategy, then you're injecting more dissension into an already volatile situation (leading is more like a job, most who play Live now already have full time jobs and do not want another). Maybe i am misunderstanding what you're suggesting though....
  • edited February 19 PM
    I agree that this is a community thing. Not much good Broadsword giving away free rp/bp/attention on changes would do. The more I think about it the more issues I see with any idea I can come up with.

    I have to agree with @Beetleguisse and @Vrisslar .
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • I get what Beetle says (LOL dude shoots down all my ideas) but I still think something needs to be done. It is absolutely true that when there is no leadership, the game struggles. Throwing hands in the air and saying "its a community issue" is defeatist IMO. You aren't wrong...but that doesn't mean those with the power to address it...shouldn't. It is VERY easy to avoid exploitation. The major BG leaders are well known to BS. I'm not saying every Tom, Dick and Harry who creates a BG ... But after several days/weeks of sustained leading...I think there should be some sort of reward.
  • @Mace80 I think you already did enough.. As @Beetleguisse stated its a community thing, and you try to help him. Think thats already a good way to start. :)
  • What about a free banner for the BG leaders (that can't be taken)...in addition to other small but interesting things. /shrug I don't know anymore lol
  • Sadly, I have zero faith that community will change....
  • edited February 19 PM
    Give him a box of chocolate! haha

    Jokes aside, think a few people being nice can compensate others being rude.
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • Sleepwell wrote: »
    Window/group/solos wasnt the issue when i atttempted. It was coordination. Everything nowadays leads back to community. If people want to follow they will. If people all want to get into one discord or chat program they will..... or they won't. When they won't coordination is piss poor. What i experienced in the past was a BG leader chastising members of a bg in a voice program. The problem was that the people he needed to talk to were not in discord (Ventrillo or Teamspeak). Again, its a community problem. If people do not want to follow, then its a fruitless endeavor. You have to have buy in from the population for a BG to be successful. If you're suggesting a way to manipulate groups to fit the BG leaders strategy, then you're injecting more dissension into an already volatile situation (leading is more like a job, most who play Live now already have full time jobs and do not want another). Maybe i am misunderstanding what you're suggesting though....

    Coordination is definitely an issue in BG play. There are less people that join my Discord now than in the past despite having similar numbers. A large portion of the Hib US prime BG are guild groups that sidecar so the BG itself fluctuates depending on what we're doing or where we're going. I find myself typing more often now than before, which is not ideal, but lessens the problem. Again, BG related issues like this are community based. Players choose whether to follow, lead, or do their own thing. Not Broadsword.
  • I thought that the honor of leading the BG and fending off all the region spam; odd tells; being yelled at by the BG members; having your group revolt; dealing with the members who are lost or dead; dealing with the complaints; dealing with the people who log in from the other realms to say rude things and dealing with the people who are convinced you can solve world hunger if you would just listen to them was honor enough :)

    82b8rh42aer4.jpg
    Bumblebunny to the rescue !
  • I didn't realize Shaylon was Beetle! You run a stellar bg dude. Sad fact is, though, that when you aren't leading.... it is rough. I would like to see more people lead BGs and that is the only intent of this. It is far easier to incentivize a few possible leaders rather than the entire player base IMO.

    You are absolutely right that it is a community problem... however, that doesn't mean that we can't do more to encourage people to lead. The hope would be that the incentive would be enough to convince people to lead despite the player base being a PITA.
  • Free account if you lead a BG 5 days a week? I’m sure they could do something that would be mutually beneficial.
    Da ant familyDa fly familyDa spider family
    https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/daredant
  • DaRedANT wrote: »
    Free account if you lead a BG 5 days a week? I’m sure they could do something that would be mutually beneficial.

    This is what I was thinking. Something along these lines.
  • Mace80 wrote: »
    DaRedANT wrote: »
    Free account if you lead a BG 5 days a week? I’m sure they could do something that would be mutually beneficial.

    This is what I was thinking. Something along these lines.

    Seems like a good idea. I wouldn’t mind doing something like this, but for PvE. Lmk @John_Broadsword.

    Da ant familyDa fly familyDa spider family
    https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/daredant
  • They are hardly able to pay the staff and keep servers alive already, dont think giving away free months would help that much. I really don't know any kind of solution to this without having someone try to turn it into something bad, or giving people more to whine about.
  • edited February 19 PM
    DaRedANT wrote: »
    Free account if you lead a BG 5 days a week? I’m sure they could do something that would be mutually beneficial.

    Time to run a BG at 6 AM for 20 mins 5 days a week, can we switch leader at the 20 min mark and make the next person run the BG for 20 mins for another free account ? :P

    Personally i see loads of problems with something like this, but maybe thats just me.
    Post edited by Vrisslar on
  • Mace80 wrote: »
    I didn't realize Shaylon was Beetle! You run a stellar bg dude. Sad fact is, though, that when you aren't leading.... it is rough. I would like to see more people lead BGs and that is the only intent of this. It is far easier to incentivize a few possible leaders rather than the entire player base IMO.

    You are absolutely right that it is a community problem... however, that doesn't mean that we can't do more to encourage people to lead. The hope would be that the incentive would be enough to convince people to lead despite the player base being a PITA.

    I always have my chimp listed on my signature to be transparent =).

    I understand the desire to incentivize BG play; however, it's a choice by players whether or not they want to lead/follow. The best way to increase leadership is to either lead by example or to support new leaders.
  • Vrisslar wrote: »
    DaRedANT wrote: »
    Free account if you lead a BG 5 days a week? I’m sure they could do something that would be mutually beneficial.

    Time to run a BG at 6 AM for 20 mins 5 days a week, can we switch leader at the 20 min mark and make the next person run the BG for 20 mins for another free account ? :P

    Personally i see loads of problems with something like this, but maybe thats just me.

    BS knows the big BG leaders. As I said, you don't reward every Tom, Dick and Harry who starts a BG.... but those whom run them regularly in earnest are no secret. It would not be easy to exploit.
  • I agree that BG leaders are needed now that many of them have went to other places. However, I just don't see how this is doable without causing a possibility of being abused. Also, I would be willing to bet that some (if not all) of those BG leaders that went "other" places will be back. I know people hate hearing the term "community issue or problem" but this truly is one.

    1. People need to step up to the plate and lead.
    2. People running in these need to not complain and pay attention to their BG Leaders.
    3. Appreciate a good leader and don't quit just because you lost a fight.
  • edited February 19 PM
    Mace80 wrote: »
    BS knows the big BG leaders. As I said, you don't reward every Tom, Dick and Harry who starts a BG.... but those whom run them regularly in earnest are no secret. It would not be easy to exploit.

    So running BG's in the right time zone would get you rewarded then ?
    Tom running a BG 3 days a week for 3 hours per evening, would have less value then Dick running BG's 5 times a week for 2 hours even tho they pretty much run for the same amount of hours ?

    How about alliance leaders who keep alliance communites together and do events and closed alliance BG's PvP and PvE for the people in their alliance, say the alliance has 30 people on for it on a regular basis. Would that person be less or more valueable then a person running a public BG for 20 people 5 days a week ? Both are keeping the community alive in each their own way.

    And many more examples ofc.

    What are the cutoff going to be for who gets what ?

    If your time zone and realm needs a BG leader and you would like to run a BG, then step up and lead it. Just like others have. Just like people lead guilds, groups, alliances, PvE, 8 mans, small mans, etc.

    But yeah i might be wrong, wouldnt be the first time, i personally just dont like things like this and find it silly.

    Post edited by Vrisslar on
  • RonELuvv wrote: »
    I agree that BG leaders are needed now that many of them have went to other places. However, I just don't see how this is doable without causing a possibility of being abused. Also, I would be willing to bet that some (if not all) of those BG leaders that went "other" places will be back. I know people hate hearing the term "community issue or problem" but this truly is one.

    1. People need to step up to the plate and lead.
    2. People running in these need to not complain and pay attention to their BG Leaders.
    3. Appreciate a good leader and don't quit just because you lost a fight.

    This.
  • The best part of being a BG leader is encouraging people to do their very best to jump inside and attack !!!
    xkqtwoqijwm2.gif
    Bumblebunny to the rescue !
  • Speaking of incentive: Why do you suppose a RR14 player would continue to play every day, leading a bg, when the only "incentive" is a few coins?
    Hmm? How many of us would play?
    Implement RR15 Do the right thing.
  • yes, BS needs rr 15 to be brought into the game.

    how much i dislike what herorius is doing (leading enough people today to take a mid relic in an alb keep when mid population had SEVENTEEN people in NF of which FIFTEEN were in godrborg) , or how much i like him as a person (he really is a nice person) he deserves advancement. outside of anna bg, mid has absolutely no chance to stand up to herorius anymore.
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • edited February 20 PM
    Siambra wrote: »
    The best part of being a BG leader is encouraging people to do their very best to jump inside and attack !!!
    xkqtwoqijwm2.gif

    lol

    so funny :D

    that feels like Annemariede saying 'push down' in a tower defence ... :D i always need a rez in a place i can't be rezzed after obeying to that order. :D
    Post edited by Muylae on
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • as someone mentioned earlier, a bonus to BG leaders is just an exploit waiting to happen imho.

    in theory i could invite my bot to a BG and solo and get a bonus.

    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • Don’t tell them what we did with BG’s in Curse 9/10 oh wait they found out and nerfed it...
  • Ways to make it easier to run a BG/find a group may be a better option, and less open to abuse, one which we mentioned in a single line in the GB last week (no full details yet)
    However, there are some features that are part of Endless Conquest that we plan to release as they are ready, instead of holding them for the major launch. With that context out of the way, here’s our 2019 roadmap and beyond:

    Endless Conquest preliminary launch features (launched as completed):
    - Realm vs Realm population-balancing feature
    --Group-finding and forming improvements as part of this.

    DAoC Community Lead
    Broadsword Online Games
  • /shrug at least that is something.
  • Mace80 wrote: »
    /shrug at least that is something.

    I agree. We are a "want it now" society. Modern amenities have created that. Amazon allows us to purchase things without leaving our chair. Groceries can be delivered to your doorstep. Pretty much anything we want we can get instantly with a click of a button. Answers are asked for and i guess its not that simple. I try personally to justify it with the old "its an 18 year old game" answer. Times have changed, but all things do not keep up with the times. DAoC is a great example. While it would be nice to know "when", i guess "we're working on it" is an acceptable answer. Work evolves and answers follow that. At one time EC was due to come out fall/winter of 2018. The latest update via the Directors note mentioned 1st half of 2019. So without specific, can assume that means sometime between now and June we can expect it to go live?
  • I believe they said more towards fall.
  • Pretty much my point.

  • As a paying player who only solos pve and, for the most part will only play in a bg, I am finding the current value diminished. Incentivize me.
  • I think the situation has resolved itself for the most part. The community has managed itself. What ive seen in the last few weeks is this.

    The US primetime (mid) bg is non-existent (as a bg). We run several groups with others tagging along if they feel like they are being run over. If we outnumber another realm, they either continue to try with relatively close numbers, they get more, or they log. We have done the same on the mid side. Numbers as a whole are way down, but thats going to happen when you offer people alternatives. Maybe the bgs arent necessary anymore. If several groups want to run together, no one said it had to be called a bg. If it fails, people have the choice to keep trying or go play somewhere else. Ive actually had a better time playing like this. No pressure, which is so so nice.
  • Bunny kisses count ?
    u7z687hutdib.gif
    Bumblebunny to the rescue !
  • Now that is friggin cute Siambra!!
  • Muylae wrote: »
    as someone mentioned earlier, a bonus to BG leaders is just an exploit waiting to happen imho.

    in theory i could invite my bot to a BG and solo and get a bonus.

    That type of abuse is easily deterred. All that needs to happen is to implement the bonuses based off of how many people are in the bg, and what zone you're in. For instance, if you're a BG of 5 people, you dont get a 5% bonus to RPs until you've got 35-50 people in the BG, and within the same zone, so that bots cannot add to factor in population in a BG, it can very easily weed out the cheaters. Maybe even be within a 10,000 unit range of 75%-80% of the BG, not necessarily the leader, because if he dies and releases, the entire BG doesnt get the bonus.
  • Nightmare wrote: »
    Muylae wrote: »
    as someone mentioned earlier, a bonus to BG leaders is just an exploit waiting to happen imho.

    in theory i could invite my bot to a BG and solo and get a bonus.

    That type of abuse is easily deterred. All that needs to happen is to implement the bonuses based off of how many people are in the bg, and what zone you're in. For instance, if you're a BG of 5 people, you dont get a 5% bonus to RPs until you've got 35-50 people in the BG, and within the same zone, so that bots cannot add to factor in population in a BG, it can very easily weed out the cheaters. Maybe even be within a 10,000 unit range of 75%-80% of the BG, not necessarily the leader, because if he dies and releases, the entire BG doesnt get the bonus.

    Again, this would only benefit large BGs. May as well log out or switch Realms if you don't have the numbers. I don't see how this would solve anything. As Carol stated, the better option is to just improve forming and/or running a BG (updated group finder, allow BG leaders to form additional groups, marking BG leaders with a name-tag, etc).
  • Nightmare wrote: »
    Muylae wrote: »
    as someone mentioned earlier, a bonus to BG leaders is just an exploit waiting to happen imho.

    in theory i could invite my bot to a BG and solo and get a bonus.

    That type of abuse is easily deterred. All that needs to happen is to implement the bonuses based off of how many people are in the bg, and what zone you're in. For instance, if you're a BG of 5 people, you dont get a 5% bonus to RPs until you've got 35-50 people in the BG, and within the same zone, so that bots cannot add to factor in population in a BG, it can very easily weed out the cheaters. Maybe even be within a 10,000 unit range of 75%-80% of the BG, not necessarily the leader, because if he dies and releases, the entire BG doesnt get the bonus.

    Again, this would only benefit large BGs. May as well log out or switch Realms if you don't have the numbers. I don't see how this would solve anything. As Carol stated, the better option is to just improve forming and/or running a BG (updated group finder, allow BG leaders to form additional groups, marking BG leaders with a name-tag, etc).

    I disagree. A bg of 35-50 people is still large, and with current populations, that is a good number to start offering benefits..
  • Nightmare wrote: »
    Nightmare wrote: »
    Muylae wrote: »
    as someone mentioned earlier, a bonus to BG leaders is just an exploit waiting to happen imho.

    in theory i could invite my bot to a BG and solo and get a bonus.

    That type of abuse is easily deterred. All that needs to happen is to implement the bonuses based off of how many people are in the bg, and what zone you're in. For instance, if you're a BG of 5 people, you dont get a 5% bonus to RPs until you've got 35-50 people in the BG, and within the same zone, so that bots cannot add to factor in population in a BG, it can very easily weed out the cheaters. Maybe even be within a 10,000 unit range of 75%-80% of the BG, not necessarily the leader, because if he dies and releases, the entire BG doesnt get the bonus.

    Again, this would only benefit large BGs. May as well log out or switch Realms if you don't have the numbers. I don't see how this would solve anything. As Carol stated, the better option is to just improve forming and/or running a BG (updated group finder, allow BG leaders to form additional groups, marking BG leaders with a name-tag, etc).

    I disagree. A bg of 35-50 people is still large, and with current populations, that is a good number to start offering benefits..

    in the current state, annamariede struggles to get 35 and hasn't been able for weeks to get 50. and no other mid bg leaders can get his amount of people these days. if there is a a bg a all.
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
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