BS putting the savage climb walls on 50 savagery based on a false premise

the optimal / common h2h spec is NOT 44 h2h / 49 savagery. it is 50 h2h / 40 savagery / 15 parry.
Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
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  • it doesnt matter no one is going 50 savagery for that trash lol. Even if 44/49 was the standard/optimal spec losing a 9 second stun lol nothx
  • who of the top 10 or maybe even top 20 h2h savages was 44 h2h / 49 savagery .... noone.
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • Well, if you want a third wall climb, you have the option now.
    Minstrel. Thane, Druid
    Heretic, BD, Animist
    Mauler
  • Ylazul wrote: »
    Well, if you want a third wall climb, you have the option now.

    yes midgard would have equality now in number of classes. but savages, especially h2h and not 2h savages (which are rare, i never understood why you would want to play a 2h savage and not a zerk) would have to gimp a lot more about their spec than what BS claims.
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • Have to gimp a minstril spec to a degree to get wall climb as well.
  • Vampiirs get it for free unless I'm mistaken.
  • Vampiirs get it for free unless I'm mistaken.

    Actually all 3 of the Hib classes get it free, as do two of the 3 Alb classes , (minis have to train up in stealth for it) and the current two Mid classes get it free.
  • There are 2 "optimal" H2H specs for savages. One for group and one for solo. 50 H2H's higher weaponskill and the evade chain lvl 50 style are largely useless in groups which is why the 49/44 spec is optimal there. Sorry for any confusion there!

    The main point is simply that Savages will need to and are intended to sacrifice to get climb walls.
  • edited November 2018 PM
    Muylae wrote: »
    who of the top 10 or maybe even top 20 h2h savages was 44 h2h / 49 savagery .... noone.

    The optimal spec thing is a red herring <shrug>; it's just a way to make an argument now mid can have a 3rd wall climber without actually getting one. Let's be brutally honest, were any of the top Savages were talked to to determine spec's etc.....? How many mini's can't climb walls? How many savages will legitimately see it as viable?

    Post edited by Xyorman on
  • Yes but they don't want a sacrifice, they want it handed to them
  • Vixan wrote: »
    Yes but they don't want a sacrifice, they want it handed to them

    Who else has to sacrifice for wall climb -- answer, no one.

  • There are 2 "optimal" H2H specs for savages. One for group and one for solo. 50 H2H's higher weaponskill and the evade chain lvl 50 style are largely useless in groups which is why the 49/44 spec is optimal there. Sorry for any confusion there!

    The main point is simply that Savages will need to and are intended to sacrifice to get climb walls.

    I'm sorry are you suggesting that 50 h2h is best for solo? Let me jog your memory but when you decided to make EVERY tier of savage buffs costs a minimum of 5% you literally destroyed any variation of spec a savage can have. The only viable spec now, for solo or group, is 44h2h/49sav.

    If you honestly think 50 h2h is best for solo you.... are wrong.

    Literally can't believe this post
  • Xyorman wrote: »
    Vixan wrote: »
    Yes but they don't want a sacrifice, they want it handed to them

    Who else has to sacrifice for wall climb -- answer, no one.

    Minstrels
  • edited November 2018 PM
    Muylae wrote: »
    Ylazul wrote: »
    Well, if you want a third wall climb, you have the option now.

    yes midgard would have equality now in number of classes. but savages, especially h2h and not 2h savages (which are rare, i never understood why you would want to play a 2h savage and not a zerk) would have to gimp a lot more about their spec than what BS claims.

    Sorry, but I've been running 2h savage for months now and ripping harder than any other h2h savage in the game. After reading this thread I personally think 2h savages would be a powerhouse for zergs (that is, if any player is smart enough to utlitize them correctly) because if you are hammer you still get a 5s side chain stun. Sh^t, even as h2h you get a rear 4s stun from anything that tries to run from you, but side chains are much easier to land in most situations... Anyways, whether its 43 h2h or 43 2h savages are still going to rip. Just depends on how much zerging you plan on doing. I also guarantee that 90% of the h2h savages that play in groups aren't opening with side snare/stun... so basically you are wasting that 44 spec anyways if you aren't utilizing the style... They simply /stick and use anytime with the occational backstyle when their target is running.
    Post edited by Armagedden on
  • Vixan wrote: »
    Xyorman wrote: »
    Vixan wrote: »
    Yes but they don't want a sacrifice, they want it handed to them

    Who else has to sacrifice for wall climb -- answer, no one.

    Minstrels

    How many mini's don't have wall climb, and what do they give up for it? That is the crux of this argument -- rest is nonsense

  • Xyorman wrote: »
    Vixan wrote: »
    Xyorman wrote: »
    Vixan wrote: »
    Yes but they don't want a sacrifice, they want it handed to them

    Who else has to sacrifice for wall climb -- answer, no one.

    Minstrels

    How many mini's don't have wall climb, and what do they give up for it? That is the crux of this argument -- rest is nonsense

    Minst also can't quad hit a caster and kill them in 1 round...

    ~Westies
  • Westies wrote: »
    Xyorman wrote: »
    Vixan wrote: »
    Xyorman wrote: »
    Vixan wrote: »
    Yes but they don't want a sacrifice, they want it handed to them

    Who else has to sacrifice for wall climb -- answer, no one.

    Minstrels

    How many mini's don't have wall climb, and what do they give up for it? That is the crux of this argument -- rest is nonsense

    Minst also can't quad hit a caster and kill them in 1 round...

    But they can mez, stun, AOE mez; siege chant buff, SOS, stealth......personally I think Skald was a better choice but....

  • Don't forget charm and buff pets
  • There are 2 "optimal" H2H specs for savages. One for group and one for solo. 50 H2H's higher weaponskill and the evade chain lvl 50 style are largely useless in groups which is why the 49/44 spec is optimal there. Sorry for any confusion there!

    The main point is simply that Savages will need to and are intended to sacrifice to get climb walls.

    i've been talking a lot to the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry.

    and that's not for the level 50 style, it's for the additional WS which is already low on savages compared to the other light and heavy tanks and for the increased chance to do more than one hit. most of the savages don't even have the follow ups to the evade and parry reactionary on their qbars.

    the buffs past level 40 add little or nothing.
    - with yellow buffs and celerity, swing speed is capped on even the slowest weapons
    - the damage increase from +21% to +25 % is negated by by the lower WS which leads to higher miss rates, and increase chance to be blocked, evaded or parried and the slight damage increase from having higher skill.
    - evade and parry, with a good template can be capped or are very close to cap with the yellow buffs.

    without the level 44 style, the only stun available to savages is the 4 second rear style. savages don't have a frontal or reactionary stun style.

    losing 7 points in h2h skill, losing 13 points in parry skill and losing the side stun to only gain the climb walls is folly.
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • Xyorman wrote: »
    How many mini's can't climb walls? How many savages will legitimately see it as viable?

    [ Zero ] 8 man minstrels can climb walls - this is pigeon holed into <battlegroup> minstrels and <stealth group> minstrels.

    Likewise with 8 man / Solo / Battlegroup players that ___choose___ to keep the follow up side stun.

    Just because the top 10 savages have 400+ million rps between them - this is purely an illusion on who the top 10 savages really are. If you want to keep your 50 h2h, then keep it, if you want climb wall then get it - make a choice.


  • tald wrote: »
    Xyorman wrote: »
    How many mini's can't climb walls? How many savages will legitimately see it as viable?

    [ Zero ] 8 man minstrels can climb walls - this is pigeon holed into <battlegroup> minstrels and <stealth group> minstrels.

    Likewise with 8 man / Solo / Battlegroup players that ___choose___ to keep the follow up side stun.

    Just because the top 10 savages have 400+ million rps between them - this is purely an illusion on who the top 10 savages really are. If you want to keep your 50 h2h, then keep it, if you want climb wall then get it - make a choice.


    the top 10 savages at least know what it is to play the class, how it's mechanics work, what works and what doesn't work. unlike the person who who decides who gets what.
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • edited November 2018 PM
    tald wrote: »
    Xyorman wrote: »
    How many mini's can't climb walls? How many savages will legitimately see it as viable?

    [ Zero ] 8 man minstrels can climb walls - this is pigeon holed into <battlegroup> minstrels and <stealth group> minstrels.

    Likewise with 8 man / Solo / Battlegroup players that ___choose___ to keep the follow up side stun.

    Just because the top 10 savages have 400+ million rps between them - this is purely an illusion on who the top 10 savages really are. If you want to keep your 50 h2h, then keep it, if you want climb wall then get it - make a choice.


    The point is it's a silly choice and specious argument...not to mention I have seen 8 man mini's climbing in so Zero is inaccurate <at best>; when comments are made and decisions based of a mythical spec, it should have some basis in what is actually played.

    Post edited by Xyorman on
  • Xyorman wrote: »
    tald wrote: »
    Xyorman wrote: »
    How many mini's can't climb walls? How many savages will legitimately see it as viable?

    [ Zero ] 8 man minstrels can climb walls - this is pigeon holed into <battlegroup> minstrels and <stealth group> minstrels.

    Likewise with 8 man / Solo / Battlegroup players that ___choose___ to keep the follow up side stun.

    Just because the top 10 savages have 400+ million rps between them - this is purely an illusion on who the top 10 savages really are. If you want to keep your 50 h2h, then keep it, if you want climb wall then get it - make a choice.


    The point is it's a silly choice and specious argument...not to mention I have seen 8 man mini's climbing in so Zero is inaccurate <at best>; when comments are made and decisions based of a mythical spec, it should have some basis in what is actually played.

    yeah, give me unlimeted respec stones, and i might situationaly climb a wall. but is this how it works ?

    and is this about 8 m
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • edited November 2018 PM
    Muylae wrote: »
    There are 2 "optimal" H2H specs for savages. One for group and one for solo. 50 H2H's higher weaponskill and the evade chain lvl 50 style are largely useless in groups which is why the 49/44 spec is optimal there. Sorry for any confusion there!

    The main point is simply that Savages will need to and are intended to sacrifice to get climb walls.

    i've been talking a lot to the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry.

    and that's not for the level 50 style, it's for the additional WS which is already low on savages compared to the other light and heavy tanks and for the increased chance to do more than one hit. most of the savages don't even have the follow ups to the evade and parry reactionary on their qbars.

    the buffs past level 40 add little or nothing.
    - with yellow buffs and celerity, swing speed is capped on even the slowest weapons
    - the damage increase from +21% to +25 % is negated by by the lower WS which leads to higher miss rates, and increase chance to be blocked, evaded or parried and the slight damage increase from having higher skill.
    - evade and parry, with a good template can be capped or are very close to cap with the yellow buffs.

    without the level 44 style, the only stun available to savages is the 4 second rear style. savages don't have a frontal or reactionary stun style.

    losing 7 points in h2h skill, losing 13 points in parry skill and losing the side stun to only gain the climb walls is folly.

    I would love to know who you consider to be the "top 10" savages or rather "the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry." ones...

    Any savage running 50 h2h is gimping their damage. I would explain (and I even private messaged you explaining it) [removed not needed]
    Post edited by Carol_Broadsword on
  • edited November 2018 PM
    Minstrel tools aren't really that useful for climb walls. You can be moderately disruptive. A Sav/Warrior combo can tough it and put out enough DPS to make them a major threat. A minstrel whacking you for 200-250 is not going to cut it, especially since they have to bail as soon as purge is out.

    IMO that's why it's more fair to have it high up in Sav. You're giving something up, but it's not like there's nothing from 40 or 43-44 Sav through to 50.
    Post edited by Ylazul on
    Minstrel. Thane, Druid
    Heretic, BD, Animist
    Mauler
  • Why do Hibs/Albs seemly get climb walls on all their toons for free basically but Mid gets to get it on a 3rd class and its gated behind a really bad spec? Not cool man!
  • Ylazul wrote: »
    Minstrel tools aren't really that useful for climb walls. You can be moderately disruptive. A Sav/Warrior combo can tough it and put out enough DPS to make them a major threat. A minstrel whacking you for 200-250 is not going to cut it, especially since they have to bail as soon as purge is out.

    IMO that's why it's more fair to have it high up in Sav. You're giving something up, but it's not like there's nothing from 40 or 43-44 Sav through to 50.

    Skald was the better, more balanced choice; now is just a false argument to say "well you can have a 3rd wall climber if you choose to spec' --- it's just a 'hand wave'.

  • Only problem with skalds and climb walls is they willl all be too eager to climb walls and then we won’t have any skald buffs on the doors lol
  • Oh shut up already Mids!! Get over it! You cried about not having a third climb wall class, you get it, and now you cry because you have to sacrifice spec points to get it (just like the minstril). Spec or don't, but shut up about it.
  • Armagedden wrote: »
    Muylae wrote: »
    There are 2 "optimal" H2H specs for savages. One for group and one for solo. 50 H2H's higher weaponskill and the evade chain lvl 50 style are largely useless in groups which is why the 49/44 spec is optimal there. Sorry for any confusion there!

    The main point is simply that Savages will need to and are intended to sacrifice to get climb walls.

    i've been talking a lot to the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry.

    and that's not for the level 50 style, it's for the additional WS which is already low on savages compared to the other light and heavy tanks and for the increased chance to do more than one hit. most of the savages don't even have the follow ups to the evade and parry reactionary on their qbars.

    the buffs past level 40 add little or nothing.
    - with yellow buffs and celerity, swing speed is capped on even the slowest weapons
    - the damage increase from +21% to +25 % is negated by by the lower WS which leads to higher miss rates, and increase chance to be blocked, evaded or parried and the slight damage increase from having higher skill.
    - evade and parry, with a good template can be capped or are very close to cap with the yellow buffs.

    without the level 44 style, the only stun available to savages is the 4 second rear style. savages don't have a frontal or reactionary stun style.

    losing 7 points in h2h skill, losing 13 points in parry skill and losing the side stun to only gain the climb walls is folly.

    I would love to know who you consider to be the "top 10" savages or rather "the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry." ones...

    Any savage running 50 h2h is gimping their damage. I would explain (and I even private messaged you explaining it) [removed not needed]

    with 50/40 I already swing at cap so the haste buff is worthless and with 44/49 savagery my damage cap went up a whole 13 points. So I dont see how gimping it can be to have more ws and a higher chance to triple/quad... seems like a no brainer to me
  • Xyorman wrote: »
    Ylazul wrote: »
    Minstrel tools aren't really that useful for climb walls. You can be moderately disruptive. A Sav/Warrior combo can tough it and put out enough DPS to make them a major threat. A minstrel whacking you for 200-250 is not going to cut it, especially since they have to bail as soon as purge is out.

    IMO that's why it's more fair to have it high up in Sav. You're giving something up, but it's not like there's nothing from 40 or 43-44 Sav through to 50.

    Skald was the better, more balanced choice; now is just a false argument to say "well you can have a 3rd wall climber if you choose to spec' --- it's just a 'hand wave'.

    What would they put in? Parry?

    Minstrels don't really do much with climb walls. They're an annoyance at most. You can stun someone to get nuked to death maybe one or two times before you're forced off, something Hibs can do pretty easily without needing to assist or two classes.
    Minstrel. Thane, Druid
    Heretic, BD, Animist
    Mauler
  • RonELuvv wrote: »
    Oh shut up already Mids!! Get over it! You cried about not having a third climb wall class, you get it, and now you cry because you have to sacrifice spec points to get it (just like the minstril). Spec or don't, but shut up about it.

    Right Albs and hibbs never complain...Perhaps take your own advice

  • edited November 2018 PM
    Ylazul wrote: »
    Xyorman wrote: »
    Ylazul wrote: »
    Minstrel tools aren't really that useful for climb walls. You can be moderately disruptive. A Sav/Warrior combo can tough it and put out enough DPS to make them a major threat. A minstrel whacking you for 200-250 is not going to cut it, especially since they have to bail as soon as purge is out.

    IMO that's why it's more fair to have it high up in Sav. You're giving something up, but it's not like there's nothing from 40 or 43-44 Sav through to 50.

    Skald was the better, more balanced choice; now is just a false argument to say "well you can have a 3rd wall climber if you choose to spec' --- it's just a 'hand wave'.

    What would they put in? Parry?

    Minstrels don't really do much with climb walls. They're an annoyance at most. You can stun someone to get nuked to death maybe one or two times before you're forced off, something Hibs can do pretty easily without needing to assist or two classes.


    And so.....?
    Post edited by Xyorman on
  • Xyorman wrote: »


    And so.....?

    For the actual purpose of climb walls, a Savage is far deadlier and effective.
    Minstrel. Thane, Druid
    Heretic, BD, Animist
    Mauler
  • edited November 2018 PM
    Armagedden wrote: »
    Muylae wrote: »
    There are 2 "optimal" H2H specs for savages. One for group and one for solo. 50 H2H's higher weaponskill and the evade chain lvl 50 style are largely useless in groups which is why the 49/44 spec is optimal there. Sorry for any confusion there!

    The main point is simply that Savages will need to and are intended to sacrifice to get climb walls.

    i've been talking a lot to the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry.

    and that's not for the level 50 style, it's for the additional WS which is already low on savages compared to the other light and heavy tanks and for the increased chance to do more than one hit. most of the savages don't even have the follow ups to the evade and parry reactionary on their qbars.

    the buffs past level 40 add little or nothing.
    - with yellow buffs and celerity, swing speed is capped on even the slowest weapons
    - the damage increase from +21% to +25 % is negated by by the lower WS which leads to higher miss rates, and increase chance to be blocked, evaded or parried and the slight damage increase from having higher skill.
    - evade and parry, with a good template can be capped or are very close to cap with the yellow buffs.

    without the level 44 style, the only stun available to savages is the 4 second rear style. savages don't have a frontal or reactionary stun style.

    losing 7 points in h2h skill, losing 13 points in parry skill and losing the side stun to only gain the climb walls is folly.

    I would love to know who you consider to be the "top 10" savages or rather "the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry." ones...

    Any savage running 50 h2h is gimping their damage. I would explain (and I even private messaged you explaining it) [removed not needed]

    with 50/40 I already swing at cap so the haste buff is worthless and with 44/49 savagery my damage cap went up a whole 13 points. So I dont see how gimping it can be to have more ws and a higher chance to triple/quad... seems like a no brainer to me


    red haste on h2h sav is worthless 50% of the time, I suppose. Unless you get ASR debuffed, dex/qui debuffed, sheared... or a multitude of other things... Then it's not worthless... Also, When you use BI with your 40 savagery spec, you miss red buffing everyhting.. you get yellow buffs on everything... btw yellow haste is worthless already anyways if you run celerity pot, you h2h speed will be capped without any extra savage haste buff.... just a FYI...

    I also don't understand how 50 h2h advocates are all talking about weaponskill. 50-60 weaponskill difference is almost non-existent. also btw the red DPS buff makes all of your offhand hits/triples/quads hit harder than 50 h2h with only yellow DPS buff. Go test if you don't believe me.

    Basically what I'm trying to say is I want a list of all 50 h2h spec'd savages out there so I know never to group with them

    Edit: Also consider... when was the last time you used the lvl 50 savage style...? Exactly
    Post edited by Armagedden on
  • Armagedden wrote: »
    Armagedden wrote: »
    Muylae wrote: »
    There are 2 "optimal" H2H specs for savages. One for group and one for solo. 50 H2H's higher weaponskill and the evade chain lvl 50 style are largely useless in groups which is why the 49/44 spec is optimal there. Sorry for any confusion there!

    The main point is simply that Savages will need to and are intended to sacrifice to get climb walls.

    i've been talking a lot to the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry.

    and that's not for the level 50 style, it's for the additional WS which is already low on savages compared to the other light and heavy tanks and for the increased chance to do more than one hit. most of the savages don't even have the follow ups to the evade and parry reactionary on their qbars.

    the buffs past level 40 add little or nothing.
    - with yellow buffs and celerity, swing speed is capped on even the slowest weapons
    - the damage increase from +21% to +25 % is negated by by the lower WS which leads to higher miss rates, and increase chance to be blocked, evaded or parried and the slight damage increase from having higher skill.
    - evade and parry, with a good template can be capped or are very close to cap with the yellow buffs.

    without the level 44 style, the only stun available to savages is the 4 second rear style. savages don't have a frontal or reactionary stun style.

    losing 7 points in h2h skill, losing 13 points in parry skill and losing the side stun to only gain the climb walls is folly.

    I would love to know who you consider to be the "top 10" savages or rather "the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry." ones...

    Any savage running 50 h2h is gimping their damage. I would explain (and I even private messaged you explaining it) [removed not needed]

    with 50/40 I already swing at cap so the haste buff is worthless and with 44/49 savagery my damage cap went up a whole 13 points. So I dont see how gimping it can be to have more ws and a higher chance to triple/quad... seems like a no brainer to me


    red haste on h2h sav is worthless 50% of the time, I suppose. Unless you get ASR debuffed, dex/qui debuffed, sheared... or a multitude of other things... Then it's not worthless... Also, When you use BI with your 40 savagery spec, you miss red buffing everyhting.. you get yellow buffs on everything... btw yellow haste is worthless already anyways if you run celerity pot, you h2h speed will be capped without any extra savage haste buff.... just a FYI...

    I also don't understand how 50 h2h advocates are all talking about weaponskill. 50-60 weaponskill difference is almost non-existent. also btw the red DPS buff makes all of your offhand hits/triples/quads hit harder than 50 h2h with only yellow DPS buff. Go test if you don't believe me.

    Basically what I'm trying to say is I want a list of all 50 h2h spec'd savages out there so I know never to group with them

    Edit: Also consider... when was the last time you used the lvl 50 savage style...? Exactly

    the level 50 style is not even on my qbar, and it's probably not on the qbar of any other savage, only reason to go for 50 h2h is WS and it's benefits and increase in attacks each round.

    i'm prety sure almost no savage has any of the follow ups to their evade and parry reactionary on their qbars. miss/parry/evade/block rates make it unlikely that those styles will land on a hybrid/light tank/heavy tank.

    better to just spam evade reactionary with parry reactionary against something hitting you than trying the follow ups if you don't do a BM style.
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • Armagedden wrote: »
    Armagedden wrote: »
    Muylae wrote: »
    There are 2 "optimal" H2H specs for savages. One for group and one for solo. 50 H2H's higher weaponskill and the evade chain lvl 50 style are largely useless in groups which is why the 49/44 spec is optimal there. Sorry for any confusion there!

    The main point is simply that Savages will need to and are intended to sacrifice to get climb walls.

    i've been talking a lot to the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry.

    and that's not for the level 50 style, it's for the additional WS which is already low on savages compared to the other light and heavy tanks and for the increased chance to do more than one hit. most of the savages don't even have the follow ups to the evade and parry reactionary on their qbars.

    the buffs past level 40 add little or nothing.
    - with yellow buffs and celerity, swing speed is capped on even the slowest weapons
    - the damage increase from +21% to +25 % is negated by by the lower WS which leads to higher miss rates, and increase chance to be blocked, evaded or parried and the slight damage increase from having higher skill.
    - evade and parry, with a good template can be capped or are very close to cap with the yellow buffs.

    without the level 44 style, the only stun available to savages is the 4 second rear style. savages don't have a frontal or reactionary stun style.

    losing 7 points in h2h skill, losing 13 points in parry skill and losing the side stun to only gain the climb walls is folly.

    I would love to know who you consider to be the "top 10" savages or rather "the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry." ones...

    Any savage running 50 h2h is gimping their damage. I would explain (and I even private messaged you explaining it) [removed not needed]

    with 50/40 I already swing at cap so the haste buff is worthless and with 44/49 savagery my damage cap went up a whole 13 points. So I dont see how gimping it can be to have more ws and a higher chance to triple/quad... seems like a no brainer to me


    red haste on h2h sav is worthless 50% of the time, I suppose. Unless you get ASR debuffed, dex/qui debuffed, sheared... or a multitude of other things... Then it's not worthless... Also, When you use BI with your 40 savagery spec, you miss red buffing everyhting.. you get yellow buffs on everything... btw yellow haste is worthless already anyways if you run celerity pot, you h2h speed will be capped without any extra savage haste buff.... just a FYI...

    I also don't understand how 50 h2h advocates are all talking about weaponskill. 50-60 weaponskill difference is almost non-existent. also btw the red DPS buff makes all of your offhand hits/triples/quads hit harder than 50 h2h with only yellow DPS buff. Go test if you don't believe me.

    Basically what I'm trying to say is I want a list of all 50 h2h spec'd savages out there so I know never to group with them

    Edit: Also consider... when was the last time you used the lvl 50 savage style...? Exactly

    according to excido 4.4 with 250 qui 20 haste and 15 celerity 10 toa gives you 1.53 not quite capped but close.
  • Armagedden wrote: »
    Armagedden wrote: »
    Muylae wrote: »
    There are 2 "optimal" H2H specs for savages. One for group and one for solo. 50 H2H's higher weaponskill and the evade chain lvl 50 style are largely useless in groups which is why the 49/44 spec is optimal there. Sorry for any confusion there!

    The main point is simply that Savages will need to and are intended to sacrifice to get climb walls.

    i've been talking a lot to the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry.

    and that's not for the level 50 style, it's for the additional WS which is already low on savages compared to the other light and heavy tanks and for the increased chance to do more than one hit. most of the savages don't even have the follow ups to the evade and parry reactionary on their qbars.

    the buffs past level 40 add little or nothing.
    - with yellow buffs and celerity, swing speed is capped on even the slowest weapons
    - the damage increase from +21% to +25 % is negated by by the lower WS which leads to higher miss rates, and increase chance to be blocked, evaded or parried and the slight damage increase from having higher skill.
    - evade and parry, with a good template can be capped or are very close to cap with the yellow buffs.

    without the level 44 style, the only stun available to savages is the 4 second rear style. savages don't have a frontal or reactionary stun style.

    losing 7 points in h2h skill, losing 13 points in parry skill and losing the side stun to only gain the climb walls is folly.

    I would love to know who you consider to be the "top 10" savages or rather "the other high rank savages about this and the consensus is that no matter solo, small man, fg or zerg, every single one of them is 50h2h / 40 savagery, 15 parry." ones...

    Any savage running 50 h2h is gimping their damage. I would explain (and I even private messaged you explaining it) [removed not needed]

    with 50/40 I already swing at cap so the haste buff is worthless and with 44/49 savagery my damage cap went up a whole 13 points. So I dont see how gimping it can be to have more ws and a higher chance to triple/quad... seems like a no brainer to me


    red haste on h2h sav is worthless 50% of the time, I suppose. Unless you get ASR debuffed, dex/qui debuffed, sheared... or a multitude of other things... Then it's not worthless... Also, When you use BI with your 40 savagery spec, you miss red buffing everyhting.. you get yellow buffs on everything... btw yellow haste is worthless already anyways if you run celerity pot, you h2h speed will be capped without any extra savage haste buff.... just a FYI...

    I also don't understand how 50 h2h advocates are all talking about weaponskill. 50-60 weaponskill difference is almost non-existent. also btw the red DPS buff makes all of your offhand hits/triples/quads hit harder than 50 h2h with only yellow DPS buff. Go test if you don't believe me.

    Basically what I'm trying to say is I want a list of all 50 h2h spec'd savages out there so I know never to group with them

    Edit: Also consider... when was the last time you used the lvl 50 savage style...? Exactly

    according to excido 4.4 with 250 qui 20 haste and 15 celerity 10 toa gives you 1.53 not quite capped but close.

    yellow self haste is 32 %.
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • Xyorman wrote: »
    And so.....?

    Savages can do far more damage and thereby make a much larger impact on the walls so how much an individual class is "inconvenienced" to spec wall climb should depend on what the class is capable of. Of course, you wanted healers to have access to a melee spec without giving up much of anything so we should also remember the mind your objections spring from.
    RR12 Stormlord Wizard
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  • Xyorman wrote: »
    RonELuvv wrote: »
    Oh shut up already Mids!! Get over it! You cried about not having a third climb wall class, you get it, and now you cry because you have to sacrifice spec points to get it (just like the minstril). Spec or don't, but shut up about it.

    Right Albs and hibbs never complain...Perhaps take your own advice

    Show me where I have ever made a complaint after getting what I asked for Xyorman and I will gladly concede and "take my own advice" to shut up. Good luck on that buddy! Unlike you and the rest of the cry baby Mids I don't do that.
  • Was thinking of respecing savage to 2 hand and going 59 savagery but 2 hand styles are absolute crap
  • Sovereign wrote: »
    Xyorman wrote: »
    And so.....?

    Savages can do far more damage and thereby make a much larger impact on the walls so how much an individual class is "inconvenienced" to spec wall climb should depend on what the class is capable of. Of course, you wanted healers to have access to a melee spec without giving up much of anything so we should also remember the mind your objections spring from.

    Exactly! Quit crying about it. Either spec for climb walls or don't. You didn't have access before and now you do. So quit crying, adapt, and deal with it. There are bigger concerns in this game then a Savage having to spec non-optimally to get climb walls.
  • It was something Mid never needed nor deserved in the first place, but here we are ... Mids complaining again.
    Minstrel. Thane, Druid
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    Mauler
  • I can’t even believe the audacity of mid. How many classes get quad hits? How many times has a savage fought any stealth and lost? How many classes get a 5min SL charge.

    Savage inside a keep will be one bad mofo wrecking everything, couple that with group stealth and you’ve got your self a nich to exploit. May not be your style of play, but there will be money to be made from that.

    GL
  • Snaillyn wrote: »
    I can’t even believe the audacity of mid. How many classes get quad hits?
    GL

    But what about bolt range mezz?
    How many times has a savage fought any stealth and lost?

    But what about BOLT RANGE MEZZ?
    How many classes get a 5min SL charge.

    BBBUT WHAT ABOUT BOLT RANGE MEZZ?????
    Minstrel. Thane, Druid
    Heretic, BD, Animist
    Mauler
  • edited November 2018 PM
    Ylazul wrote: »
    It was something Mid never needed nor deserved in the first place, but here we are ... Mids complaining again.
    Snaillyn wrote: »
    I can’t even believe the audacity of mid. How many classes get quad hits? How many times has a savage fought any stealth and lost? How many classes get a 5min SL charge.

    Savage inside a keep will be one bad mofo wrecking everything, couple that with group stealth and you’ve got your self a nich to exploit. May not be your style of play, but there will be money to be made from that.

    GL

    Amen to both of these comments. The clip below after fast forwarding to about 38 seconds in is my comment to the Mids upset about this.

    [removed]

    Post edited by Carol_Broadsword on
  • Question. Did ANYONE actually log to pendragon on a savage and test how "horrendously" they'd perform in a group/bg or heck even solo speccing 50 savagery 43 h2h or 2h??

    All I saw was a TON of paper DAoC flying around. Muy did you test anything at all? Did you try and verify how much your WS would drop? How many fewer triple and quad hits you'd land?
  • RonELuvv wrote: »
    Amen to both of these comments. The clip below after fast forwarding to about 38 seconds in is my comment to the Mids upset about this.

    Nate is brutal
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    Heretic, BD, Animist
    Mauler
  • edited November 2018 PM
    Damn! I really enjoyed my Joe Dirt quote. Oh well, I apologize if it was over the line @Carol_Broadsword . :)
    Post edited by RonELuvv on
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